We have a Concept 2 rower and a Precor Eliptical machine
http://www.precor.com/popup.php?p_picname=533_main.jpg&p_modelno=533&p_machinename=EFX5.33
at the local Gym. Can anyone help me out with some ideas of tempo work outs using these two machines?
It is for a 15 year old boy who plays competitive sport and I guess the usual steady state work outs may not be as beneficial as tempo work.
eliptical trainer, 30sec on (fast) 60sec off. do about 10min or 15min of that and he will be feeling it. but you goto go fast.
i’m confused woulnt’ that flood the mucles with LA… thus making it an unideal tem,po sesssion?
You aren’t going to flood much with an ellipitical as there is no eccentric stress at all and minimal work involved period–even less than swimming and cycling.
Respectfully disagee-not a huge eccentric component true-but this isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Eccentric damage is what we’re trying to recover from, not cause. Concentric accentuated stuff can pump blood like crazy.
Tempo’s aim is to flush, and you can flush strongly on a Precor unit to a far greater degree than swimming or cycling for example. Unlike the Precor unit, swimming and cycling don’t use very much glute or ham-primary areas in need of a flush.
That precor model has height adjustability [unique among ellipticals as Precor has the patent], and the motion pumps quads, hams, and glutes well. You feel like you’re doing the Asafa Powell stepdown!
Most ellipticals are not nearly as compatible with the sprint motion, however.
Try 30 seconds fast/30 seconds slow for 10-15 reps at a quick [but not explosive] pace. You’ll be a-sweatin’.
When did I say it was bad? I just said you don’t have it with ellipticals and they aren’t taxing typically, especially with the protocols mentioned.
Actually, you never said it was bad. You said it it wasn’t a good choice to flood the muscle, which I respectfully disagree with.
You linked the eccentric component of a motion with it’s efficacy at flushing muscle, which I also disagree with.
And you said that this elliptical trainer does not even measure up to swimming or cycling for the purposes of tempo, when I feel that it is superior to those methods by a long shot.
Also, you can work the sprint muscles bloody hard-too hard actually so that it is no longer tempo-on the particular Precor trainer flyingspur mentioned.
There are many ellitical trainers that suck for tempo, so I understand where your point is, just not with the particular model flyingspur mentioned. Cheers, Johnny
It is not going to flood the muscle with LA (read the post). Completely different from flushing. I never said they suck for tempo. Jeebus.
Man, I’m not trying to give you a hard time…I just don’t understand why you would want to flood the muscle with lactic acid during tempo.
If you were to do that, by definition, it ceases to be tempo and therefore doesn’t help you recover from the previous session, but rather impairs your recovery.
Are our definitions of tempo different? I’m referring to the usual recovery tempo, extensive tempo, like swimming and cycling for recovery. [Examples you provided of extensive tempo.]
Maybe you are referring to intensive tempo? [Lactic based 75-95% stuff]
PS Davan-I think we got our wires crossed from the beginning!
i think davan was saying, that by going fast, your not going to flood your self with lactic, therby it will be ok to go fast. Your not going to sprint max on it, but your still going to have to go fast to get it up and going and get the muscles flooded with blood, lactic should not be much of a problem.
jesus christ read my posts. I never said it is bad/good, just that it would not flood the body with lactic! Now, read into the rest, but I am not saying anything either way. We never crossed wires, you just started taking my psots out of context.
[QUOTE=Davan]jesus christ read my posts. I never said it is bad/good, just that it would not flood the body with lactic! Now, read into the rest, but I am not saying anything either way. We never crossed wires, you just started taking my psots out of context.[/QUOTE
Gosh, your right, I can’t read. Like the glaring part of your original post that states that in effect, the Precor elliptical flyingspur asked about creates less lactic than swimming or cycling. WTF? Have you ever even been on the piece he asked about? I use it every second day, and yes I have tried cycling and swimming for tempo so I know what I’m talking about.
Yeah, I know, my hams and glutes really lock up during swimming, and I never feel a darned thing on those Precor intervals. You were right all along, and I’m ashamed for questionioning your assertion.
Why don’t you just admit you bloody well haven’t used the piece he particularly asked about, and let’s move on. The guy wanted to know if it was a good option for tempo-IT IS, AND YOU SAID IT ISN’T.
Or, I suppose you’re going to tell me to re-read your post again.
Bottom line:
This Precor model flyingspur asked about is a decent tempo option.
You stated that ellipticals are minimal work and less lactically taxing than swimming or cycling. In the case of the particular model that flyingspur mentioned, you are not just wrong, you are REALLY wrong - to the point where it is obvious you have no experience with the machine in question, it’s range of motion or resistance levels.
Move on, and just admit you over-generalized with a sweeping statement about ellipticals that simply isn’t true.
Or, I guess you could try and divert more attention away from your untrue statement [which I politely took issue with] by asking me to re-read your post yet again.
Thanks guys for some excellent info in those discussions!
What kind of volume do you suggest in terms of total minutes spent on the eliptical tempo work for fat loss?
Ditto the tempo work on the Concept 2 rowing machine?
Would tempo running on a treadmill
( Precor again) be advisable, given the fact the he is 15 years old?
I used that model last night for 10mins, since my university thinks it is worthwhile to buy 10 of them. Anyway, I would put it behind cycling and swimming and even bodyweight and mb circuits as a form of tempo.
Even increasing the resistance and angle, the work was minimal. I will say slightly more than cycling due to the nature of cycling, but the difference in speed makes up for that, not as much as swimming or pool running though.
Before using the machine, I actually thought ellipticals were OKAY based on some experience with another model a year and a half back or so. Only used it once or twice, but didn’t seem terrible. This one actually turned me off to ellipticals even more. It really is nothing like the way you were describing.
Now I:
-Never said they flood the muscle with lactic or that you would want to flood any muscle with lactic.
-In previous posts, never said they were worthless.
-Did say there is a minimal eccentric, which is true.
-Did say there was minimal work involved, which is also true, even when you increase the resistance and in that particular model, angle.
Learn to read.
you should tell that to a rower
what does eccentric stress have to do with lactate?
hint: nothing.
and minimal work? you should check the power outputs for rowing sometime
Lyle
We are talking about an elliptical Lyle. There is minimal eccentric and minimal work on an elliptical. I didn’t say just an eccentric was work, I added it as a seperate issue. Considering I have rowed before, I think I know that lactate is produced in rowing. Power outputs of ellipticals? Make-up a study design for that one. I have seen people on ellipticals for nearly an hour who probably couldn’t walk for an hour (or at least, they were having trouble after the <30mins I was watching them!).
Also to consider is that rowing is a full body workout. The elliptical machine being talked about has nothing of that sort of whole body workout.
Please learn to write, and I’m being serious.
You said one correct thing in this post. Med ball circuits are a great tempo alternative.
After that, I call BS yet again. On level 15, with a 20 degree [max] incline, with 30 second bursts followed by 30 second breaks, at 200 plus rpm, for 10 to 20 intervals, your quads, glutes and hams will be feeling it BIG TIME, to the point where you can go WAY PAST the boundaries of extensive tempo. I don’t care how fit you are.
Another sign to me that you haven’t really been on the unit in question: Further to your rowing comment to Lyle, the elliptical unit in question DOES have the arms for pushing and pulling, and giving a decent full body workout effect.
To beat this dead horse, SWIMMING AND CYCLING DON’T USE BUGGER-ALL FOR GLUTES AND HAMS so your comparison is garbage, and if you’d ever upped the speed and intensity on the unit in question you’d see how foolish your comparison is.
Hmmm. Tempo fitness and flushing, and fat loss, are two different goals for your 15 year old.
Most fat loss programs tend to be continuous tempo, say 20 to 30 minutes at say, 65-75% of your max heart rate.
Tempo work is interval based, with say 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off type work, for 10 to 20 reps. The “on” part is likely more robust than at any point in the continuous tempo routine.
I would say doing interval tempo better prepares the 15 year old for sprinting, is probably more interesting to do, and can still accomplish fat loss.
He needn’t be afraid of the treadmill if the treadmill is of decent quality and cushioned appropriately. Good luck.