i have a squat problem. i have a 10mm leg discrepency on my right leg being shorter then the left. Now i squatted for a year with orthotics but with no heellift underneath the short one. I got hip strain in track practice and was out for 4 months. I got very strong on the squat, but as the weight got heavier my back wasn’t adapting like my legs were, so i would go up almost doing a goodmorning and straighten myself at mid-flight upwards and the back strength would come back magically. I tried all the back exercises, and i still dip at the full squat(im unsure whether i do full or parallel, but my hips pass the knees very slightly, its hard to tell cause i have average developed quads. Now before the injury i had nagging pain at the bottom of the squat on my right hip flexors, and it turned out to be very tight iliopsoas. I later found out my apendicitis surgery caused some nasty scar tissue hindering proper contraction which caused alot of compensation on my hip flexors part. That side of the body was cleared, but now after months i got back to the squat and there is no pain in the surgery affected area, now its the other hip flexor(feel like an old used car with all its old parts) that is nagging, that and my right leg(short one) has a naggin pateller tendon pain as well not so bad though. All these pains however subsided magically after i passed the 245lb mark on squats. But i still dip and i know my back takes a toll on that. I can run and everything very powerful and i suffice to say taht i never have done quarter-squat just do full and i never have gone over 5 reps in a squat set in just alittle over a year. I’m assuming i cuold just mix it up like that and maybe i can get stronger. I know i have imbalances but when i presented the next set of problems i was having after the hip recovery, i have already got a new pair, more useful orthotics with inbuilt soles to elevate the short leg. I should also say i have super flat feet, VERY FLAT when i go on tipy toes they barely have an arch, also when i go on my tipy toes dont rise like most ppls do, which i guess i lose some flexibility. Strange thing is i supinate instead of pronate like most flat footed which baffles the doctors around my neighborhood casue they say all flat footed ppl pronate. Anyways My question after the long post of my issues is, Should i just continue with my squat program lighter weight until adaptation or stop all in all and do upper body work more and medballs for the whole track year?
If you dip with your back during the squat, it usually means there’s not enough juice in your legs so you’ll compensate with using your back (in a forward lean where your legs kind of straighten and your ass tend to point more upwards than a peacock in full bloom).
Usually, there’s also a confidence issue involved; when it gets really heavy and the movement slows down considerably, one sometimes tend to “mini-panic” and therefore urgently switch to other means of moving the bar up at a slightly faster pace (usually by dipping). This is more prevalent when one squats alone without spotters around.
I guess you can continue squatting, but do it with your legs; so lower the resistance for a while.
Good points…
True. I think that Charlie’s high-low schedule (if you are using it) gives you a great opportunity to work on mobility and imbalance issues on the low days, even with a big group of people. I rarely do countless numbers of (in my opinion) pointless ab crunches anymore. I rather do an extensive program of exercises that could concentrate on for example thoracic extension and hip mobility (depending on athlete’s needs)…and I’m still getting a great ‘core’ workout done at the same time.
True if they don’t understand why they are not. Aren’t we there to educate? I do understand that again group size limits the education time.
If they truely understand why they are doing the exercises they will do it. There’s got to be interaction, you have to make them think for themselves. Otherwise it’s a waste of time like you said. Use simple questions like ‘why is there knee pain on only one side from doing a bilateral exercise like the squat?’ This could help them make the connection that maybe there is something different in the function of one hip vs the other.
Fair enough, but I would still coach them the functionally ‘correct’ way and if they cannot do it, and they must do squats, then use 11 and 1 until the underlying cause (mainly dysfunctional primary hip flexors) has been addressed.
I wouldn’t say extreme tightness, but rather a dysfunctional psoas as I pointed out above (muscles work in pairs). Usually external knee rotation is related to a shortened, and thus not fully functional strength wise either, psoas. This is the reason growing numbers of people cannot squat an inch without losing the arch in their lumbar spine (if they had it in the first place). They simply cannot get any hip flexion so they bend their knees and spine…not a very good way to squat. Some have anterior pelvic tilt/lordosis others posterior pelvic tilt/flat lumbar, but the common denominator is dysfunctional psoas. Turning the feet out helps get some psoas activity and recruit other muscles to help out (compensate). Ever wonder why the adductors get tight and eventually give out?
These are of course just generalizations and not every case is the same, but hopefully something to think about.
They say all flat footed people pronate even after seeing you?? :o The body compensates in many different ways to get you moving. Flat feet can be corrected when the root cause has been corrected. We were all born with everted and yes, flat feet. Orthotics are not going to fix anything, they are just moving the problem to another area… and we end up chasing the symptoms.
How do you know that you have one leg shorter than the other? Maybe it’s not your back muscles that are weak (you told you tried everything to strengthen them), maybe it could have something to do with your hip flexors not functioning properly, what do you think?
i had apendicitis affecting contraction of transverse abdominus in the lower leg side. They did x=ray on me and my pelvis is tilted heh like 10cm shorter then the other, and my spined is curved alittle bit to the left. Well those orthotics eliminated many other pains, now the new pains i guess are adjustments to the biomechanics of wearing them. It takes time i guess. I can deadlift 270lbs never maxed at it though so your right my back is not terribly weak. I’ve been contemplating what lorien saying the weight is intimidating me, which might but i never really think about it cause i know i can do more, only when its a new weight i have the slight unease but even that is not so much. Should i just bump my deadlift up to lets say 340 or something to make the squat technique more sound. Or should i modify it to different squats? OH and jumpman i think they think differently abit about pronation of all flat footed ppl hehehe, but i might be a freak or something.
Ok, there could be a difference in leg length, but again x-rays are not completely accurate so it could also be a measurement error. Trust your instincts on this one.
May I suggest you try a couple exercises done before your squat workout to see if there is a change. First do supine foot circles and point/flexes for 30 reps in each direction and then do a static extension for 1-2 mins (when you can do the full 2 minutes your squats will be much easier). I’ll pm you with the instructions, freak…just kidding 
I have seen much worse cases than you so you don’t quite qualify as a freak…wait I haven’t actually seen you so… LOL
Why not just do single-leg strength work for now and possibly add squats or deads in in 6- or 8-weeks. Or just do single-leg strength work first (hopefully this will help with any underlying strength-imbalance) and squat or deadlift after (which will also limit maximal loads (which is probably a good thing right now).
Good idea. You can continue doing regular squats also, but keep the weight light just concentrating on technique (keeping the spine arched).
holy crap one leg squats are hard i do them on my chair and i fall on it and have to go back up, i cant do one going down and up. When i do on my right leg my pateller tendon gets sore.
Only perform those within range that you have no pain. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to do some hip flexor, piriformis, and rectus femoris stretches in between sets possibly. Think of your knee pain as a hip down issue though. That’s me referencing michael boyle’s work (www.michaelboyle.biz, or read “Designing Strength Training Programs and Facilities” for good insight on correcting knee pain/issues).
I was talking to a coach the other day about knee pain issues and full squats. He reckons there have been studies showing they cause real problems.
I have found references that show how the full squats can be performed safely but no studies that show why and how a full squat causes cartilage damage and meniscus tearing like he described. Does anyone have any to hand?
Thanks,
TC
i dont know tc.
any exercise can cause knee injury but on a scale id say parallel squats are more dangerous than half squats.
i recently injured knee cartlidge doing parallel squats after being a full squater for ages.
think about the positions involved.
when you stop at parallel the full weight is being taken by the knees - not so with full squats.
i know i personally will not be doing parallel squats again anyway…
I don’t know if there is such literature out there. Sure there are plently of opinions.
First of all any exercise can cause injury if not done properly.
I don’t use much single leg work at all with anybody for the simple reason - unless its necessary why spend twice as long in the gym?
And drain resources?
I only use it to correct certain conditions and even at that it’s carefully regulated as many people prescribe (often with incorrect diagnosis) single leg work such that it can excacerbate the underlying problem.
As Speed says if there is pain there is a reason for that pain - don’t keep doign them!!!
IMO proper form is one of the key issues here along with proper proegression.
Look at the overall program too before blaming squats - squats are not the only action casuing knee pain .
-If it was everyone would have knee injuries
Often I hear of squats being blamed for knee issues and no account taken of the other training elements like depth jumps of intensive plio work.
I know of a few elite strength coaches who will prescribe nothing but full squats due to the fact they believe that this is the safest biomechancial position and points of pressure on the knee contact surfaces to reverse the action around the knee.
I also know of other athletic coaches for various reasons permit partial squats, but they don’t over emphasis the action and squating is not overly used.
Often injury can occur at any joint by over prescription of a certain exercise.
Remember in a proper squat hams must touch calfs
Deep squats are one of the best exercises in achilles, knee and hamstring rehabilitation after surgery – provided you keep the load within reason of course.
General guidelines for the squat depth are that the thigh is parallel to the floor (greater than 90 degrees). With this guideline, it helps promote flexibility of the gluteus maximus, parts of the quadriceps, and most of all increased flexibility of the soleus muscle, which typically cannot be achieved during the 90 degree squat depth. Also, for sprinters the motion of the parallel squat promotes a more sport specific movement that is desired for athletes who want to bring the knees higher as they sprint. Finally, with the parallel squat (as opposed to the 90 degree squat) one will lift less weight allowing for less strain on the lower back. The 90 degree can sometimes be used for athletes who do not need to achieve such a low depth while squatting. An example of such is a power hitter in baseball.
Are front squats quad dominant, and back squats hip dominant?
Are back squats good for increasing hip height, thus helping to eliminate overstriding?
ok guys i dip alot, like i said on my previous post, so i was thinking it was my posterior chain that was not up to par. But today i did romanion deadlifts and did 4 sets at 225 and it felt lighter the more sets i did, so i went and did deadlifts, and decided to go for my max, and ended up doing 350lbs as my new max. So what is another pausability for the squat problems? I was thinking maybe quad and ham development, my quads look developed but not very cut cause of the fat, and my hams seems developed as well but not like the quad, so maybe more still legged deadlifts?