Why do you want to Shut off the thighs?
Thighs will act as a stabilizer and need to kearn to work with hammies etc.
As fast as the hammies are, the thighs need to work as fast (turn off then act as stabilizer)
Yup, and coming from the same group of charlatans that screwed up Drob.
See Yohan Blake in this video running 9.69 while clearly pushing force into the track.
“The easiest to spot is a bend at the waist.(Video 1) A runner’s butt will also stick out.(video2) They will also be slightly curved in the torso.(video 3) This is so they can put their body in the position to do quarter squats to push their body down the track.”
See the curved torso and the butt sticking out. I guess people like Korfist might be able to get his time all the way “down” to, oh,…10.9?
After the Drob debacle, I don’t understand why anybody would want to pay attention to those guys when much better concepts can be found here.
The part of the article you posted does not coincide with anything seen with Yohan Blake’s form. He is not bent at the waist and is not performing a quarter squat with each step. (His butt is only sticking out because he has huge glutes.) If we was, you would see his head and body moving up and down with each step. When you watch the video, especially in slow motion, it appears that Blake is pulling the ground instead of pushing it. Push vs. Pull Runner are terms used to describe what is seen and not an explanation for what is happening. Chris and Dan would tell you that force is being applied to the ground.
I would recommend you read the articles with an open mind. A lot of the principles Chris and Dan use are similar to CF, but some of the principles are applied in different ways. That is the great things about principles, they are many different applications. They do get more specific with weights but also realize that weights are supplemental to speed training. One of the reasons for more specific weights is that they don’t do Olympic lifts. Some of the weight exercises will mimic some of the benefits from those exercises, but are a little easier to learn.
As for the Drob incident, I don’t know what really happened there and I don’t think anyone outside of them do either. My understanding is that Drob is friends with a guy who knows Chris and Dan. So it is unclear if he was training him, them, whether it was in person or distance, etc. Either way, I think we all agree it probably was not a good idea to switch coaches in the middle of everything. Hopefully, you will look at some of the articles and learn a few things that will improve your training. I think you will see that they are truly not charlatans.
What, please tell me, am I going to look at from a group with a proven track record of screwing up a guy clearly heading for 10.00 to 10.10 and making him run 10.48? That takes a special kind of non-understanding of the differences between training a developmental / sub-elite athlete and training someone ready to to run at international level. The reference to specificity of weight training just made my radar go off. How many times does Charlie have to explain that specificity in weights is a no go at elite level?
I can’t emphasize this enough- until everyone here has watched Charlie’s three Weights For Speed lectures a dozen times each and truly internalized the concepts discussed, I wouldn’t suggest listening to ANYONE tell you a damn thing about weights for speed.
The weights would still not be considered specific to sprinting. However, they would probably be considered more specific to sprinting than what CF recommended depending on how you look at it. CF recommended olympic lifts. Dan and Chris do not . They use things like reactive squats (CF may have considered these specific) to get some of the same benefits of the olympic lifts.
Also, you don’t have all the details regarding Drob. No one does and there are a lot of assumptions being made. I am not defending anyone or minimizing any thing that happened. I don’t have enough information to do either one. There are plenty of people (respected strength and conditioning coaches) who recommend looking at the innosport site from their own websites and have mentioned that they have learned some good things from it. Some of these people are even respected members of CF.com. I find that interesting since the site has been inactive for years.
My point is that there are often things we can learn from many different places. A lot of times, you will see the same underlying principles. Does that mean you should drop everything CF and do everything innosport? No, of course not. Take a look at things if you want to and see if there is something valuable. If you do not, that is fine but I don’t believe any of us should speak poorly of others. Unfortunately, this tends to happen on all forums.
I am not intending to disparage anyone, but when someone starts a trollworthy thread on Charlie’s forum bringing up this topic out of the blue, then an associate steps in to defend the said philosophy, I think it’s fair to state the obvious and encourage people to understand CF’s overall perspective on weights for speed before taking their shopping cart elsewhere (Innosport) and stuffing some random advice in it.
Context is king- and I defy you find a better explanation of weights for speed than Charlie’s lectures. Have you watched them?
On that note, plenty of people have lots of understanding about what happened with Drob, and it would be really interesting to hear them openly discuss what they tried, what did and didn’t work, and what they learned from the process. I don’t see any of that happening, which is a sorry expression of ego. I have no respect for those who can’t admit their failures and have no interest in anything they say. Failure is not a reflection on one’s current skill set, and in fact demonstrates growth and learning, something that I haven’t seen any public evidence of from a group that seemed quite happy to associate themselves with success when it was convenient.
Full disclosure: my guy pulled his hamstring two days ago- MY FAULT!
I did not start this thread and I am no associate of the guys from innosport or the original poster. I also have not encouraged anyone to take “their shopping cart elsewhere”. Actually, I don’t believe there are any products for sale on that site. It is a site with free information. Some of the information from that site has been helpful to me and others. If you don’t like the information or disagree with it, then that is fine. You have had good success with your previous and current training. That is what matters. May be something from the other site could be beneficial to someone else.
I also agree with you about everyone openly discussing what went well and went wrong. I think it would be a great learning tool for all of us.
Sorry to hear that about your sprinter. Didn’t Ange have a blog post dealing with recovery from a pulled hamstring?
It’s OK, these things happen! There is lots of great info, we’ve just taken two days of complete rest so far. Hopefully we’ll get it looked at tomorrow.
I didn’t mean anything about purchasing product, etc. Just that people are constantly pushed and prodded to take a little bit from philosophy A and a little bit from philosophy B and then hope to come up with a winning formula. Within the context of elite level performance though, things that work on a developmental level don’t in fact work at all at the elite level. Until people have an understanding of the “what and why” of this, there is no point in taking free information from six different sources and trying to mix it into a winning formula.
Good luck with your athlete. I hope everything heals quickly for him. I will leave coaching, especially elite level coaching, to people who are much brighter than I am.
People I posted the info for discussion not a flame war. Everyone on here should damn well know who I follow.
I clearly see this as information for high school and younger athletes. When has anyone seen an elite or experienced athlete run like the kids on that page?
Some of y’all seem very bitter about what happened to drob. I didn’t follow what happened, I remember him getting hurt, but that’s it. If he did decided to switch coaches then that was the beginning of the end. Not many coaches can come in and take over and take an athlete to wr times (Charlie with Tim). Shit we saw what happened last season with Dix and John smith. If it ain’t broke…
CLIMBON: you say somewhere Charlie advocated Olympic lifts. That’s the point, he advocated weights being general; Ben didn’t do any Olympic Lifts, for example. Anyway… We wish a swift recovery to T-Slow’s guy!
The olympic lifts are in several of the videos, so that is what I was going by. My point is that they use some different exercises to achieve the same thing. To me, the weights would still be general, but someone else may define things differently. I don’t think the guys from innosport would classify weights as specific either. I also agree with what T-Slow said about not trying to mix several parts of different systems together. That will only lead to issues. Most systems are set up to follow a natural progression and some of that is lost when you try to combine bits from many different sources.
To go along with what Chris6878 said, these articles point out mistakes in form that are seen with developmental sprinters. You do not see these issues with elite level athletes. They may have experienced some of these issues when they first started, but the issues were addressed and corrected by their coach. This is just one way to correct some of what is seen. Is it the only way? No.
Including the Olympic lifts in GPP appears to have been an after thought and IMO is mis leading to the overall ideas Charlie discusses extensively in many products. I still feel there is value in keeping the lifts in this video but I considered editing it out and putting into another small download labeled OL.
The Olympic lifts at the end of GPP were included to demonstrate what proper OL are to look like.
OL is not meant to be a primary stimulus for sprinters. Weights for sprinters are meant to be secondary to the primary stimulus which is the sprinting itself.
A full discussion regarding this topic is outlined in Weights for Speed Bundle which goes on sale this week for more than 40 percent off.
Thanks for making this point Nikoluski.
this video is by the same group/associates of the korfist dude…some of the stuff i hear them saying regarding foot pathologies actually makes sense in my mind, as it regards sprinting…for instance I never realized that all this time i’d been doing athletic activities on sore toes(each of my great/big toe joints)…The exercise or range of motion exhibited in the above video, helped me realize that my big toes had been gradually abducting under and towards the 2nd toes(hallux abductovalgus)…the hallux abductovalgus is no doubt caused by cramping my toes in hockey skates 6 months out of the year, 2-4x a week, every year since the age of 10…
…in addition to sore toes, I had also been experiencing mild niggles on the ankles and top of feet…now through more research, I now realize I have fairly flexible flat feet, which is related to ankle rocker…in that as I progress past 90 degree of ankle rocker, when walking my arch tends to drop and flatten…I’ve since began to feather in arch and toe exercises to rule out talus bone dislocation, which is believed to be the cause of numerous/various foot pathologies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bgBKhkS_N0