Ahhhh okay, so it’s what you’re advising for me. I would say my fitness is not too much of an issue generally. I have been doing the core and the general strength work. Not so much tempo, although I had been doing bike sessions to mimic some track workouts.
Generally speaking, I think you are on the right path. As for the Accel + Speed End. combination, it can work, yes.
I haven’t had the time to follow all of your posts - what are your issues/goals? Where are you in your season?
( " From the Structure of Training for Speed" … 2008 www.charliefrancis.com )
Special Endurance in the Season Plan
I wouldn’t do any Special Endurance in the GPP but that period doesn’t last long
for developed athletes and SE can start quite early.
SE can be added as soon as enough speed is in place. This occurs at different
times. For example 300meter SE speed is already in place when the athlete can
accelerate at full effort to 30meters but 80 to 120meter SE peed is only in place
when all speed qualities are in place.
You can include it early. Remember that during the acceleration phase, top
speed may be limited but there is plenty of speed available for the longer SE
runs. For example, if you can accelerate for 20m and maintain it you can run a
world class 500.
If you think of overall speed volumes, you half to start early to get an adequate
volume. For example, Ben totalled over 60,000 meters of speed work annually,
yet he seldom ran over 500- 600 meters in any one session
(3x500x40wks=60,000). Although sufficient speed must be in place before quality
speed endurance can be carried out, that sufficiency varies with the SE. Once
accel to 30meters is in place, there’s enough speed available for a world record
at distances of 300 meters or greater, but you need speed perfected all the way
to max (60meters) to expect optimal SE between 80 and 150 meters.
Speed endurance work can be done over shorter rep distances if required. i.e.
4x(4x60) with short breaks between the reps with 7 to 10 min or longer between
the sets. The 65 to 35 ratio refers to the training volume of tempo and speed- not
the ratio between lactic and alactic speed work.
As for the weekly set-up, it depends on whether the plan is from short to long or
long to short.
As most plans go from long to short, you’d probably start with 2 SE sessions per
week, with 1 speed and 1 Strength Endurance session (running A’s for a longer
distance/time) as follows:
M- SE (i.e. 2x300m)
T - Tempo
W- Speed
Th- Tempo
F- SE (i.e. 2x600m)
Sat- Strength End ( 80, 100m running As at walking pace forward).
Short to long programs have so many more variables that you’d have to give a
very specific example to come up with a plan.
Copyright 2008, CharlieFrancis.com, All rights reserved. 54
Thank you to all that have contributed. Angela’s extract was helpful, although it does raise the question for me of the exact definition between speed endurance and special endurance. Would an example of special endurance be a 250 or 300m once full speed qualities are in place, whereas that would be a speed endurance run if only limited acceleration was in place, and then once full speed qualities are there, a speed endurance run would be 80-150? I’m sorry if this is elsewhere. I was fairly confident in my understanding of speed endurance, but trying to understand special endurance confuses this a bit for me.
RB34, I am a predominantly 200m sprinter, but due to injury through November and December, the winter we have here in January and then a pulled hamstring through April, my specific track work this year has been very disrupted, yet the competitive season is pretty much here. That is why I was thinking focusing on acceleration (which has been largely maintained) and speed endurance for a 4-6 week block, would see greater results than max velocity. It is far from an ideal situation, but I am trying to make do with what I have got at this stage!
[QUOTE=maris;246915]How would you feel about using resisted runs over a short distance at the beginning as opposed to falling starts?[/QUO
I am guessing you might want to be using a resisted run because you feel you will " get more " from a resisted run than a run with a falling start?
If you are in or nearing a competition phase I am not sure I would be doing resisted runs anymore.
[quote="“Angela_Coon,post:34,topic:24132”]
Yeah, you pretty much nailed it with my thinking. I have read that MVP keep hills/sleds in year round, do we know their reasoning for this? I am just trying to open the discussion up a little bit as MVP have arguably the 2 best starters in the world right now in Carter and Powell.
How many meets do you have? There is no problem with doing low vol resisted runs inseason - NO PROBLEM AT ALL. Performing 3x30 uphill vs 4x30 blocks won’t make any difference with your recovery.
FYI - who cares what we say on a forum. This is something you must play around with - I have done sled work year round with absolutely no issues in the past.
I have around 8 meets, with the first one potentially being this weekend. However, the weather may mean this doesn’t happen. Prior to reading the replies on this thread today I did 2x4x20m on a hill and 4x20m from 3 point on the track. I agree that the forum isn’t gospel, more a sharing of ideas and opinions. However, I believe there are people out there who know far more than me with far more experience than me, so would value their opinions.
8 meets - how many total weeks of training including meet weeks?
what’s your pb in 100-200?
that correlates very much to the potential 300 times I believe
How many weeks have I trained in total this year? I’d have to look back and check. Perhaps my record keeping needs improving! The last meeting is August 10th at this stage, but there maybe another couple, but the latest I would race would be Saturday 25th August. My pbs are 11.4 and 23.5. The 11.4 was with a +3.0 and the 23.5 was with a -1.2, so I don’t know that the discrepancy between the times is as big as it looks.
12 total weeks with 8 of those weeks being meet weeks. First thing, race the 100/200 in all 8 meets.
Example:
4 weeks No meets:
Mon: Speed/Throws/Jumps/TB Wts
3x30 sled
3x60 blocks
hurdle hops 3x5
Throws x10
Squats 3x3 submax
Bench 3x3
Pullups/Hypers
Tue: Tempo/abs
Wed: Starts/Spec Endurance
3x20
2x250-300
Thur: Recovery
Fri: Starts/Speed Endurance/Jumps/Throws/Wts
2x30 sled or hills
2x30 blks
2x150
Pskips dis 2x40yds
Throws x10
Split squat 3x5
Bench 3x2
Sat: Tempo/General strength circuits/Abs
5-6x300 rest 90sec
Meet Week:
Mon: Speed/Throws/Wts
2x30sled/2x30 blks/2x60 submax
Throws x10
Squats 3x1-3
Bench 3x1-3
Pullups/Hypers
Tue: Tempo/abs
Wed: Starts/Speed End
2x20/1x120-180 submax
Jump squats 3x5
Bench press 3x1-3
Thur: Tempo or Rest (I’ll probably do tempo early season - rest later)
Fri: Premeet or Rest
Sat: 100/200/(general strength circuits post meet)
Sun: Rest
Once you start to race every week - keep all speed work submax. Late season drop sled pulls and unload every 4 weeks.
Thank you RB34. I like the template you have sent me. Are you suggesting relying largely on the meets for max velocity work? I notice the 2x60 on the Monday of a non racing week will give some stimulus for max vel, but probably not a significant amount. I would also possibly replace the squats with hex bar deadlift due to shoulder/back issues. I also like using cleans and RDLs, so may cycle those in, unless you could see a major issue with that?
Non race weeks there are 3x60 which is enough when you have racing coming up - you could toss in some flys but I remember Charlie strongly recommending 60’s with long recoveries. Don’t matter squat/leg press/deadlift do what ever you want. Probably wouldn’t do rdl inseason too much stress on hammies esp if you are already doing trap bar dead. REMEMBER WEIGHTS ARE GENERAL NO NEED TO DO A TON OF SHIT - SPEND YOUR TIME AND ENERGY ON THE TRACK.
What do you think the advantage would be using 60s over flys? I like leg press as I feel I can load the legs more, but I miss that feeling of hip extension that I get with cleans, trap bar deads etc. Okay, I have no issue cutting RDLs out in season. I have only recently really grasped the concept of spending my time and energy on the track! Needed to take a step back from what I was doing to really see it though!
that’s around what i will ru this season i think.
for me +1.0 wind decreases time in 100 with .1s.
so you 11.4 is about 11.7 which translates better to your 23.5(23.4=2x100pb). normally in 200/400 runners the 200 is some less than 2x100pb.
you 300pb@36.18 is relative good I think. many guys that run <36 all run low 11 in the 100. So it may look like a speed problem for you.
I think you have 2 people merged into one here. You have quoted my PBs for 100 and 200, but the 300 PB you have mentioned is QUikazhell’s, not mine. I’m not crazy enough to run a 300 lol.
oops sorry…