Does my stuff about relative level of intensity make sense?
the worse someone is prepared for good speed work, the more there is to be gained from such workouts close to competitions, I believe.
Do you mean the more there is to be gained from Longer Special Endurance (2x200) + High Levels of Speed Work or the opposite Split runs (180+50) + Lower Speed Work?
It makes sense to me, yes!
This comes from Charlie’s graph, if you are behind with your speed work and competitions are approaching, there is more to be gained from your Speed/Special Endurance; there is not much time for anything else.
In your question specifically and for 200 m, both options seem more or less the same to me, as in both cases you are avoiding a conflict (:)) -you could even bring the split runs further down in the second option.
Others?
I would like to ask about the pace for 3x(150+150) 90" / 15 min. Is it the pace like for 300m? in this case like 17.5? Or it is devided by 2 from 300m like 36.5/2 = 18.25? all with short recovery… How fast they shoul be?
I’d say around 90% which would be about the same as dividing it in 2. Both numbers you mentioned are pretty close though and since they are submax I would play around with it. Better to be consistent than to fall off.
Lol. I posted this 5 years ago and honestly don’t even remember if I even did these workouts.
I find this point interesting as I am in that situation now. I was thinking last night about giving my training a speed endurance focus over the next 6 weeks, partly because speed qualities can also be trained through speed endurance development (I may be wrong on this???) and partly because speed endurance is easier to develop max v and more significant improvements can be seen here in a shorter time. Additionally I feel 2-4 accelerations over 20m as an extension of the warm up would largely maintain acceleration. Am I following your reasoning correctly? Does this sound logical?
See Structure of Training for Speed for comments by Charlie on the subject of training speed qualities through speed endurance, I’m sure its in there somewhere. We tend to use 3 or 4 20m accelerations from a falling start prior to speed endurance or special endurance and it seems to help keep the acceleration qualities ticking over.
How would you feel about using resisted runs over a short distance at the beginning as opposed to falling starts?
Not speed end but general conditioning.
Can you elaborate please RB34? Do you mean general conditioning is easier to develop quickly?
Get fit - tempo/core/general strength circuits etc.
Ahhhh okay, so it’s what you’re advising for me. I would say my fitness is not too much of an issue generally. I have been doing the core and the general strength work. Not so much tempo, although I had been doing bike sessions to mimic some track workouts.
Generally speaking, I think you are on the right path. As for the Accel + Speed End. combination, it can work, yes.
I haven’t had the time to follow all of your posts - what are your issues/goals? Where are you in your season?
( " From the Structure of Training for Speed" … 2008 www.charliefrancis.com )
Special Endurance in the Season Plan
I wouldn’t do any Special Endurance in the GPP but that period doesn’t last long
for developed athletes and SE can start quite early.
SE can be added as soon as enough speed is in place. This occurs at different
times. For example 300meter SE speed is already in place when the athlete can
accelerate at full effort to 30meters but 80 to 120meter SE peed is only in place
when all speed qualities are in place.
You can include it early. Remember that during the acceleration phase, top
speed may be limited but there is plenty of speed available for the longer SE
runs. For example, if you can accelerate for 20m and maintain it you can run a
world class 500.
If you think of overall speed volumes, you half to start early to get an adequate
volume. For example, Ben totalled over 60,000 meters of speed work annually,
yet he seldom ran over 500- 600 meters in any one session
(3x500x40wks=60,000). Although sufficient speed must be in place before quality
speed endurance can be carried out, that sufficiency varies with the SE. Once
accel to 30meters is in place, there’s enough speed available for a world record
at distances of 300 meters or greater, but you need speed perfected all the way
to max (60meters) to expect optimal SE between 80 and 150 meters.
Speed endurance work can be done over shorter rep distances if required. i.e.
4x(4x60) with short breaks between the reps with 7 to 10 min or longer between
the sets. The 65 to 35 ratio refers to the training volume of tempo and speed- not
the ratio between lactic and alactic speed work.
As for the weekly set-up, it depends on whether the plan is from short to long or
long to short.
As most plans go from long to short, you’d probably start with 2 SE sessions per
week, with 1 speed and 1 Strength Endurance session (running A’s for a longer
distance/time) as follows:
M- SE (i.e. 2x300m)
T - Tempo
W- Speed
Th- Tempo
F- SE (i.e. 2x600m)
Sat- Strength End ( 80, 100m running As at walking pace forward).
Short to long programs have so many more variables that you’d have to give a
very specific example to come up with a plan.
Copyright 2008, CharlieFrancis.com, All rights reserved. 54
Thank you to all that have contributed. Angela’s extract was helpful, although it does raise the question for me of the exact definition between speed endurance and special endurance. Would an example of special endurance be a 250 or 300m once full speed qualities are in place, whereas that would be a speed endurance run if only limited acceleration was in place, and then once full speed qualities are there, a speed endurance run would be 80-150? I’m sorry if this is elsewhere. I was fairly confident in my understanding of speed endurance, but trying to understand special endurance confuses this a bit for me.
RB34, I am a predominantly 200m sprinter, but due to injury through November and December, the winter we have here in January and then a pulled hamstring through April, my specific track work this year has been very disrupted, yet the competitive season is pretty much here. That is why I was thinking focusing on acceleration (which has been largely maintained) and speed endurance for a 4-6 week block, would see greater results than max velocity. It is far from an ideal situation, but I am trying to make do with what I have got at this stage!
[QUOTE=maris;246915]How would you feel about using resisted runs over a short distance at the beginning as opposed to falling starts?[/QUO
I am guessing you might want to be using a resisted run because you feel you will " get more " from a resisted run than a run with a falling start?
If you are in or nearing a competition phase I am not sure I would be doing resisted runs anymore.
[quote="“Angela_Coon,post:34,topic:24132”]
Yeah, you pretty much nailed it with my thinking. I have read that MVP keep hills/sleds in year round, do we know their reasoning for this? I am just trying to open the discussion up a little bit as MVP have arguably the 2 best starters in the world right now in Carter and Powell.
How many meets do you have? There is no problem with doing low vol resisted runs inseason - NO PROBLEM AT ALL. Performing 3x30 uphill vs 4x30 blocks won’t make any difference with your recovery.
FYI - who cares what we say on a forum. This is something you must play around with - I have done sled work year round with absolutely no issues in the past.
I have around 8 meets, with the first one potentially being this weekend. However, the weather may mean this doesn’t happen. Prior to reading the replies on this thread today I did 2x4x20m on a hill and 4x20m from 3 point on the track. I agree that the forum isn’t gospel, more a sharing of ideas and opinions. However, I believe there are people out there who know far more than me with far more experience than me, so would value their opinions.