short to long question

On Charlie’s short to long slide, why does the special endurance top out at 60m? Is the “Phase I speed progression - short to Long” slide intended to be a SPP phase BEFORE the actual competition phase?

When would I add Special Endurance runs of 150 to 200m?

Correct me if I am wrong, but special endurance is usually 200m upwards and 150-200m is speed endurance II. What graph or reference did you get the information from? Check “Training for Speed” for a definitive answer.

I’m referring to the slides from the Vancouver 2004 seminar…they’re available if you have the Vancouver DVD or attended the seminar.

Ok I have ordered but not recieved my downloads yet. I will leave it to those who have to help you answer your questions.

But according to “Sprints and Relays” by Jess Jarver (came across some references in “Training for Speed” but not clear enough). It is…

Speed End: 80m-150m
Speed Endurance II: 80-150m
Special Endurance I: 150-300m
Special Endurance II: 300-600m

I thought speed endurance was 70-120m, special endurance I was 150-250m, and special endurance II was 250-350?

For a 100m runner****

yeah, SE 7-20 seconds 60m to 150m, SE1 20 to 40 seconds 150m to 300m and SE2 40 seconds to almost 2 minutes 300m to 600m. For hurdles.

Exactly my question… In the Phase 1 speed progression charlie has

SPECIAL ENDURANCE (Recovery Incomplete)
4x60m(short rest)
4x60m(short rest)
4x60m(short rest)

4x60m with short rest is more of a split run. So, it’s a 240m run broken up.

I haven’t seen the material yet but my guess is you probably don’t need to do special endurance work in phase 1. Charlie has stated before that:

  1. You need a tempo base first.
  2. You can’t do speed endurance at 80m or 150m for example until your proper acceleration to 60m is in place.

As per my understanding its the incomplete recovery that changes the type of run. I did those all fall and I noticed as we’ve started getting longer that they helped ALOT

Take a 100m distance at practice.

Think about:
-Volume of work ( number repetitions and sets)
-Intensity (50%, 75%, speed variations, etc)
-Time of rest (seconds, minutes hours!)
-start procedure (blocks, stand, fly, signal, etc)
-ground surface (track, grass, sand, downhill, uphill, etc)

  • technical advice (sprinting, step frequency, boundings, skipping, etc…)
    -weather conditions (wind, temperature, etc)
    -alone or with partner(s)
    -form of the athlete at the moment of practice

All this changes the type of run. With 1 training distance you can make thousands of different workouts. Multiple it by the number of possibel distance and your runner will never make them all in his poor life!

WOW WOW WOW, guys if you have not got the new material then… get it because its a revelation. The special endurance runs for phase I consist of just 60m runs with incomplete rest. The speed work has very very long recovery. No wonder CFs athlete DOMINATED. The spec end runs over 60m are similar to P Minnea’s training.

The classic special endurance runs we all know about ie 2x200m etc etc, DO NOT feature in the short-to-long progression that I assume Ben would have done prior to indoors. The Long-to-short utilises both spec endurance I and II the kind of training Tony Sharpe would have done I assume.

If you have the GPP DVD and want details of track work for the SPP then buy the Vancouver DVD. I may add that I have not recieved the DVD yet but have downloaded the tables and graphs for the DVD. Frankly you would never have come up with this sort of training for the SPP on your own in a million years.

Another interesting piece of info is the acc distances you need to work to achieve optimal results for a given distance. This in itself is new material for many. Though CF has alluded to it and talked about it, but when you see the graph things will fall into place. Looking forward to the DVD.

Morta your query is is valid, I only understood what you meant after looking at the graphs.

Morta, I am assuming that the phase I Short-to-long would have been done before competition. You raise a valid point about special endurance over 60m. I think only one man and his associates can answer your question definitively lets wait and see.

I agree! Charlie (or anybody else), in the columns headed strength endurance, on both the short to long, and long to short progressions, what are these “strength endurance runs”? I’m guessing they are short/very short recovery, 100% runs is this correct? Thanks

Or after reading the illustrations a bit closer! are they the high knee, slow forward movement, running drills. I’m assuming the figures are (sets x duration of effort in seconds).

I talked to Charlie in the chat last night. He said basically what you guys are saying:

1- the strength end. column, 4x30 is like 4x30m of running A’s at walking speed forward.

2- the incomplete recovery of the 60m “special endurance” classifies them as “special endurance”.

If you wanted to use a short to long approach for 400m SE training what distance would you use for the repeats? 120m? 200m? And what pace would you use?

How much of it would be on the straight vs bends? I assume you could do one set starting at straight, the next on the bend and set 3 (if there is one) could be half way down the straight.

I have read that this may be discussed somewhere on the forum but I can’t seem to locate it. Does anyone have the thread title or a link?