On another site bb.com a couple of strength coaches were arguing back and forth about this and sprint training.
One advocated high rep calf training for speed and plyometrics and said the top sprinters in the world do this
The other one said he was a fool and he never heard of any top sprinters/athletes doing high rep calf training at all.
What is the definitive answer?
Thanks in Advance
Forget calf raises. They get enough work from sprinting and plyo’s. I havent done a calf raise in 6 years.
No need to do them IMO. Any unnecessary hypertrophy of the lower limb will weigh it down and slow velocity, etc. I believe CF went over this in CFTS, or one of his products, can’t remember exactly.
Like Chris said, I haven’t done any direct calf work in YEARS and don’t plan on it while I’m still participating in sports. Sprinting, plyometrics, Olympic lifts, jumps, med ball throws provide plenty of work to the calves indirectly anyways.
I’ve always advocated that there is enough calf work with speed, drills and plyos to make separate calf work, not only unnecessary, but counterproductive.
Apparently the second guy agrees with me that the first guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
I don’t mind when a guy is wrong, but when he backs up his arguement with bogus facts, he drags others, without access to the real facts, down with him.
If you really want to know what is actually done with World Record sprinters, instead of getting distorted rumours why not get your information from this site, which has produced World Records?
Just get calf implants - then you’ll surely run faster.
on verkhoshanski’s website he advocates calf work and says they are often negelected…i dont disagree with charlie’s thoughts…but i would assume it wud depend on the level of the athlete, in which case there there might be exceptions?
Calf raises are used by many jumpers. I know Dan Pfaff prescribes them.
they said sprinters on the discussion and we are looking to keep our lower leg in one piece and not get overloaded with unnecessary work with subsequent serious injuries- like achilles problems
Agreed. I’m just saying that Verko is coming from more of a jumpers perspective. The Russians typically produce better jumpers than sprinters.
Yes, jumpers generally have far lower sprint volumes than sprinters but, often, program reliance is based on analyses done many years ago overstating the contribution at the ankle vs the hip (I was exposed to alot of this discussion in 1981 at the European coaches conference in Venice).
The analysis of Ben in 1987 showed 3500 watts at the hip va 500 watts at the ankle at top speed.
This difference might be explained as hip dominance increasing as speed improves and no-one tested by 1981 had run close to Ben’s velocity. That said, my own experience across a spectrum of performance levels still finds isolated ankle work unnecessary.
calf raises or eccentric calves? seen a pfaff pdf document with one of the vague heading he must of talked about in his presentation was “eccentric calves are good”
Did he start recommending this before or after donovan bailey achilles blowout?
For myself i started off the deteriorating tendon process on my left achilles 2 years back. Did eccentric/concentric heel raising/lowering(with forefoot on step) as rehab to stretch and strengthen up the achilles so I could sprint again. I stopped doing them once I started sprinting again and was able to sprint train 2X a week for about 6 weeks before my left achilles fucked up again. Now if I want to remain sprint training I have to remain doing these ‘eccentric calves’. My theory is if I stop doing them I lose mobility and range of motion in the plantarflexed and dorsiflexed directions, then when this happens too much trauma is put on the achilles. Something like that.
In Italian Training metodology, calf training is still present, like 3x20 standig calf raises with a barbell.I find unnecessary too, btw, whereas I’d spend more time to strenghten the foot (barefoot walks, EMS, sand pit exercises)
That’s rehab on the calves and is not the same thing as specifically overloading them beforehand. The idea is not to have achilles problems in the first place by:
1: Not overloading the calf with exercises that are already covered by other activities. You can read an extensive arguement about all this in the forum reviews about general vs specific work.
2: Working on a softer surface whenever possible- like grass for tempo and early phase sprinting.
Some of this stuff drives me crazy (can you tell??). i went to Australia and met the Rugby Golden Boot winner from a few years back. He bought a copy of Speed Trap many years ago and simply built a training program around it. He came to the attention of the NFL and was brought to the US. The team in question thought it would be a good idea to have him worked out by one of these “calf proponants”. After a single day of hopping up and down the track for 100m repeats on the track on one foot and then the other, rep after rep, he ruptured his achillles tendon.
He had never had a single injury over the years but just one day and he was never the same.
If you see the same program generating not one but many achilles and lower leg injuries and you still insist this is the way to fly- good luck to you- you’ll need it.
so if you saw a squad where a few athletes (3+) had achilles issues you would look at direct calf work as a possible cause?
What is the big deal with during 2-3 sets of calf raises or ECC raises once a week…
That’s not what we’re talking about.
If a program assumes that calf work in isolation is vital to sprint success, do you really imagine that 2-3 sets of 10 calf raises will fill the bill or do you suspect the volume will be higher?
In the case of the rugby star, single leg med-ball weighted contacts on the track exceeded 500.
Well, lets say the session was for 500+.
He wasn’t clear on how many reps he got done before his achilles ruptured.
Immaterial really, since, if the achilles didn’t go that day, or the next time, or the time after that, it had to go at some point.
I agree. I don’t classify this eccentric/concentric rehab/prehab as specific work but rather supplementary seeing as it is fuck all as far as intensity goes. But for myself it is vital as far as maintaining range of motion, as when i lose the range of motion(sometimes lazy to do eccentric calves) and sprint, too much trauma is induced to the tendons.
the swedish study said to increase the eccentric calves reps and when that becomes easy then add a backpack with weight but i’m hesitant about this, since it might shift it from general supplementary to specific unnecessity. I’ve been getting along alright past 2 years using the following eccentric/concentric lower/raise scheme:
22 reps both legs w/very slight knee bend
22 reps both legs w/deeper knee bend (activate more soleus stretch)
11 reps singles each leg w/very slight knee bend
11 reps singles each leg w/deeper knee bend
I don’t see anything wrong with what you’re doing but how much massage work are you getting? When ROM is decreased like this, I wonder about the status of the muscles themselves. Lack of shock absorption through the calf muscles leaves an inordinate amount of the absorption role to the achilles.
Taking the knots out of the calves is painful and may cause you to miss a few days of running but helps big-time over the long haul.
No massage at all, just a foam roller and my own hands to keep the calves loose and relaxed. But will plan on starting with a deep tissue massage every 3 weeks for lower half from now on.
If you can, front load the massage now and if you can get on top of the tightness, the other modalities could help you stay loose