Don’t really do any SE for under 16s and still had good results in the 200m. In fact i’ve had athletes win senior national medals without really doing anything specific for the 200m - only runs out to 120m maybe 2 a session.
When i have tried a speed endurance session with younger athletes i’ve used split runs maybe two sets of 3x50m with a walk back between reps and 6min between sets. Personally, I’d work more on strength training, hurdles, long jump etc with the younger athletes and worry about preparing for the 200m once they hit about 18. If they are talented they’ll still do well at the 200m without specific training.
Thanks TC and others, it all helps. We have used 2-3 x 130m 95-98% (20mins rest) late on in the summer. The older guy managed 3 with very little drop in time. I kept the 14 year old to just 2, he only did this a couple of sessions and a few weeks apart, his technique would start to felter on the 2nd rep.
Its a bit frustrating for the 2 lads, they have improved this season, but also see other sprint groups of same age range doing speed endurance and 200’s and 250’s i.e. special endurance 1 and getting major improvments at 100/200/400. I just keep telling them they won’t keep it up long term and we need to do things gradually, but it ain’t easy.
Question for TC and KK, at what stage of the winter did you commence such sessions and how would you progress the sessions you have quoted.
Also would you advocate 2 high intensity sessions per week rather than 3 ? the power med ball session is quite intense, but obviosly not as high as the track work.
I don’t really start the Speed Endurance during the winter for the young athletes. I just put it in occasionally when i feel they can handle it and need a change.
In terms of the number of high intensity sessions per week. If they are young they are probably only training 2-3 times a week anyway so all the sessions are high intensity - because they can still recover just fine as absolute intensity is fairly low. Charlie goes into this in the Elite Concepts ebook and the Vancouver series videos.
Also my athletes are hurdling, long jumping and sprinting at 12-15 years old and will probably continue this until the hurdles become too high for them (boys at least) and then drop down to long jump and sprint - as the two are compatible until a point where they decide to drop one or the other.
Hi TC, the 2 in question are training 3 times per week. So do you bother with tempo for your younger athletes, or is their training not intensive enough to need it or does the activity they are doing at school etc serve that purpose.
Is the time normally allocated to SP1 just an extension of the varied work shown in the GPP DVD, and do you use short hills for the younger athletes.
Don’t really do tempo as a specific session with them but i might do something like this on one of the days a week with a bigger conditioning focus:
Warm Up
Multi jumps
Accelerations
Tempo 8x100m (20s pace) - could be done as 400m the hard way (e.g. run 100m, walk back 50m, run 100m, walk back 50m etc).
General Strength Circuits
Warm Down
Good question RB, I was wondering as well if you use the running A’s for strength endurance at this age, I would imagine that it would not be a problem - thoughts ?
Just to ask again if you have used hills with this group TC, and if so what distances and volume.
I thought I read, somewhere, Charlie said racing for kids is enough speed endurance work.
Will try to find, but seems fair enough, as they need higher GPP work and what we would deem speed work for adults would be speed endurance for youths.
Thanks DMA, the thread started off very appropriate to my current needs but unfortunately turned into yet another Bolt debate, ah well the first 3 pages were interesting.
Question, providing I give them 1 session a week of acceleration/speed and 1 session of explosive med ball, would 1 session of intensive tempo e.g. 85-90% with appropriate recoveries (as opposed to 95-98% SE1 or SE) detract from their long term development ?
Hi TC, I have used in the past 7x100m round the track with 50m walk back recovery, so I could use that again for them as their “long session” to begin with. Then after a few weeks of that try something along the lines of what KK was advocating i.e. using 150m + down the clock from 60m. They are at the moment doing 3 sessions of tempo on grass with bodyweight exercises immediately afterwards. The other sessions will be as stated, e.g. Tuesday 2x4x15m followed by multi jumps circuits. Sunday med ball for power + general conditioning. The longer track work done on Thursdays.
Question for both of you - what intensities would you be expecting the respective sessions you suggested to be ran at.
I imagine the rests between the short reps would be a walk back to the next start line - is that about right. ?
PhilG
I could say that my record with younger athletes (over 10 years) is pretty good. We never had any serious injuries other than growth related ones.
I have been using the CF model i.e. MON speed TUE Tempo WED break, THU SE FRI break SAT speed SUN off.
On WED and FRI the kids do “home sessions” (Sit ups, push ups)
MON - speed - breaks 3, 5, or 7min, pre-season or in season (depending on intensity) 7, 9, 15min.
TUE - tempo 2-3.5min. @70%
THU SE - 3, 5, 7 min.
When we do SE I make sure they are rested before running again. Only on tempo days they walk back and run again.
But, as KK1 said it depends on an individual. They need to be assessed and you need to know how they react to shorter-longer breaks.
I know what CF said regarding young athletes (under 16) but I never went down that path. I treated them as other (older) athletes. However the intensity and volume was different and more appropriate for younger athletes.
Kids recover better (pre-puberty kids) than adults but can not peak over a longer period of time. With an appropriate foundation and strong core area (in particular) they cope well even with longer distances.
as they need higher GPP work and what we would deem speed work for adults would be speed endurance for youths.
DMA
They do not need higher GPP work. It’s a myth. Speaking in general terms, kids get fitter sooner than adults. The younger they are the less recovery they need. Of course it needs to be measured and appropriately applied to an individual as we are all different.
I remember one girl I coached some years ago. She was 13 years old. Into our 2nd week of GPP some “bodybuilder” sprinters were showing off at the local gym. They tried to do what they call “ab wheel roll out” from standing position to fully extended horizontal position and roll back to a standing position with a proper bar and wide hand grip. Only one person could have completed this exercise - one rep. So I recommended to do this exercise starting on their knees, roll out and back. I’ve challenged them to do more than 30 reps and that this little girl would do more reps than anyone else. One guy did 10 reps other 2-3 around 20 and another guy did 26. The girl did 54 reps and I had to stop her.
She was into her second week of GPP as I said. We did lots of practice in the past and she was familiar with the exercise. She was sore after that but recovered withing 2-3 days… The guys? They did not come back for 2 weeks!!! That year she won the Nationals and ran a NR in 400m and in 200m.
I guarantee you (pound for pound) pre-puberty kids will outperform adults (free weight exercises) and recover quicker.
I understand what you mean, he’s not pre puberty but the 14 year old in my group managed the same tempo and bodyweight circuit session as the seniors yesteday. The running was a bit slower than the older guys, sensibly as his pbs are slower than theirs but completed the session without problem.
True. Have seen similar things, but have also seen the typical teenager have no GPP but be able the fastest person in the state of none. He did that for 2 seasons and it took us 18 months to get him fit enough to run due to injuries.
Group A - under 10s
2-3 training sessions a week
Speed-tempo-jumps
Speed - 30-40-60m
Tempo - 100m
Speed break time - 3, 5 or 7min.
Tempo break time 2-3min
Group B under 11- under 15
3 training sessions a week + comp on SATs
Speed- tempo- SE- comp/speed
Speed - 30-60-80m
Tempo 100/200m ( some 300m and 400m but not many)
SE - 80-150m
Similar break time as Group A
Group C 16-18yo
4-6 training sessions a week
Speed- Tempo- home session- SE-home session- Speed
Speed - 30-60-80m
Tempo 200/300/400 (combination of various distances)
SE - 80-150m
Speed break time - 5, 7, 9 or 15min
Tempo BT - 2 to 3.5min.
SE BT - 5, 7, 9 min.
Bpm and communication with athletes. When you spend a lot of time with some of them you just know when they are rested and ready to go.
Thank you, so high intensity work keep at 150m and below. Would the tempo stay at and below 75% (extensive) or does it go higher on occaisions i.e. intensive tempo, rather than 95%. I’m figuring by your rest times its fairly low intensity. My feelings are to keep it low intensity, but I’m interested in what has worked for you.
16x200m @ 36sec 2.5min
15x200m @ 35sec. 2.5min
…each week one rep down with one sec down.
7x200m @ 27sec 3min
6x200m @26 sec. 3.5min
5x200m @ 25sec. 3.5min.
Total - 12 weeks (GPP)
Then during the SPP phase;
300 or 400 m
4x400m with 3min at around 62-65sec.
(If a runner’s PB in 400m is say 50 sec. 70% = 65sec. pace)
2x300m @ 70% 3min.
2x200m @70% 3min.
For younger athletes
4x250
2x200
2x150 all at 70%
Then we hit the gym (espec. I would encourage younger kids to participate) where they do up to 1000 crunches and 200 push ups only. In total 3000 crunches per week no matter how young they are. All of my athletes have incredibly strong core/abdominal area.
So in total - up to 30min running (including breaks) and 30min gym work on a tempo day and they are done. Do not worry much about the SE component if they are under 13-14. If they are conditioned well and if speed is in place from my experience I find they cope well and are ready to compete. However if some of them react well to the SE training I would let them do it in a controlled fashion.
