Sachin Tendulkar

Expert Discussion Biomechanics and Physiology
1

Charlie, This youtube is a part of a documentary on India’s biggest cricket icon and the richest player the game of cricket has seen.

No doubt a great player, there is plenty of hype in this documentary and the way it is presented. Setting that aside, you will see some biomechanists talk about the ideal height
( 5 feet 4" to 5 feet 7") for a batsman through the history of the game.

They also point out that shorter levers help a batsman like Sachin to be more successful than the taller ones with longer levers. And they say that he also probably has more fast twitch fibers which helps his reactions.

I remember you saying that Ben Johnson’s height 5 feet 9 (?) and levers were best suited for 100 meters.

Ofcourse a cricketer would not need the elite physical characterstics or training of an olympic sprinter. It is only in recent times that cricketers have begun weight training but still not as serious as North American athletes in other sports.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-6yoWUD1rE&mode=related&search=

Interested in comments of Charlie and the other experts in Biomechanics.

2

I say, strength based characteristics are mostly irrelevant in cricket. It’s a technically, not physically demanding sport.

3

Thanks for the response Luca. I would not say that strength is irrelevant, but cricket was played at a liesurely pace in the early days. But in recent times, if you watch an elite game you will note that it is much quicker and players fitter. And if one bats for 3 or 4 hours (score a 100 runs for eg.) or bowl 10 overs on the trot or more overs in a 5 day game it can be physically demanding. The standards of fielding and running between wickets have gone up and explosive power is an important factor these days. The Australians are world champions for some time now.

4

I’m no biomechanics expert by any means but you cannot ignore the correlation between batting greats and height, it is too much to be coincidence.

Does that mean that taller players become bowlers because they don’t believe they can be great batsman? :confused: Certainly it appears there is an advantage in being a tall fast bowler. Or do they do so because because they enjoy it? :confused:

They used to say in golf the ideal was 5’-8" - 5’11 and that was based on the height of the great players till the 90’s as very good players over 6’ were rare. That has changed the past 10 or so years as the average height has increased. Very different situation to cricket batting where reaction speed and the ability to get into position is critical I know but still interesting. (well to me it is :stuck_out_tongue: )

5

Thanks John, your observations are correct. It is a combination of many factors, mental and physical.

Interesting point on Golf and the increase in height. Maybe modern golfers like Woods are stronger too?Do you think the increase in relative strength from an efficient strength training program will help batsmen with longer levers also become as successful?

Longer levers certainly help fast bowlers. But If you look at some of the current fast bowlers like Shoaib Akhtar ( 5 feet 10) arguably the fastest, Bret Lee ( under 6 feet), Darren Gough ( 5 feet 10), it looks like an issue of relative strength & power for these guys?

6

What are the “ideal” lever lengths and ratios for the 100 meters?

7

I’ll split this into 2 parts.

Golf
First off Woods is a subset of 1, he is so far ahead of his peers it is ridiculous, so using him as the basis of reasoning is. Sort of like trying to discuss sprinting in the late 80’s and using Ben as representative of all top level sprinters. Is Woods the best golfer of all time? :cool: IMHO he is the most complete.

IMHO more than increased strength levels it is advances in technology and the evolution of the golf swing that are the key factors. Yes there are a lot more players on the PGA tour closer to athletes than 20 years ago. But now they can give it a rip every time as the sweet spots are larger and the mishits have less impact. As I said the golf swing has evolved from that of the 70’s when everyone was copying Nicklaus. The evolution of the swing (more body versus excessive leg drive) has meant that height is almost indeterminable. Here is Nick Faldo, looking at that could you tell he was 6’3"?

Cricket
First off nothing will ever convince me that Shoaib is a chucker, Brett Lee is at times too. So what do the ICC do? They relax the rules :eek: :mad:

Bowlers under 6’ tend to bowl along the pitch whereas those over that bowl into it, the classic being Joel Garner.

Now onto your question re relative strength improving batting (I get there eventually :stuck_out_tongue: ). More than that I would say increased power is the key factor. In batting reaction speed is what separates the top players from the also rans, they seem to get into position so quickly and have so much time. So rather than simply looking at the weight room perhaps med ball and plyos play at least an equal part. :cool:

8

You are right about Shoaib although I am not sure he chucks every ball, ditto Bret Lee. Lets not even talk of Murali :slight_smile: the spinner! :smiley: The reason the rules changed?

Surely the taller ones get more bounce as you say. Bond is very quick too but gets injured more often?

The weight room is just one component but an increasingly important one. Sure Med balls and plyos would be very much part of program.

When I watched the recent Chappell Hadlee series it struck me that the Aus and NZ players have become very powerful players relative to the subcontinent teams.

9

Ben was 5ft 10in but had long levers relative to his height. Ditto for Tim Montgomery and most others in the top ranks.

10

I wasn’t even going to mention Muri :rolleyes:
FYI I found this

Re the rules on the elbow

ICC dealing with suspect bowlers more effectively than ever

Jon Long

July 13, 2006

ICC General Manager - Cricket David Richardson said the ICC is dealing with the issue of bowlers with suspect actions more effectively than ever before.

The current regulations, in place since March 2005, provide a scientific basis for judging a player’s action while at the same time recognizing the reality that almost all bowlers are likely to straighten their arm to some extent during delivery.

“The regulations are based on the views of an expert panel of former players including Angus Fraser, Michael Holding and Tony Lewis - the current Chairman of the MCC’s Cricket Committee,” said Mr Richardson.

"This group studied the research of prominent bio-mechanists Professor Bruce Elliot, Dr Paul Hurrion and Mr Marc Portus and the scientific evidence they were presented with was overwhelming.

"The facts are that some bowlers, even those never suspected of having flawed actions, were found likely to be straightening their arms by 11 or 12 degrees.

"And at the same time, some bowlers that may appear to be throwing may be hyper-extending or bowl with permanently bent elbows.

"Under a strict interpretation of the Law they were breaking the rules but if we ruled out every bowler that did that then there would be no bowlers left.

"The game needed to deal with that reality and the current regulations do just that.

"What they do is take the pressure off umpires because it is now no longer one person’s view of whether or not a bowler has an illegal action. It is something that can be proved scientifically and the assessment is independent and not partisan.

“At the same time the umpire retains the right to call a bowler for throwing and the first judgment he makes is still based on his instincts after viewing an action with the naked eye,” he added.

The regulations include a 15 degree level of tolerance in elbow extension for all bowlers during delivery, which was identified by the panel of experts as the point after which the bend is likely to become visible to the naked eye.

Five senior international bowlers have been reported under the new process - Harbhajan Singh of India, Pakistan’s Shabbir Ahmed and Shoaib Malik, Jermaine Lawson of the West Indies and Johan Botha of South Africa.

Shabbir Ahmed is currently serving a one year suspension after being found to have a flawed action twice within a two year period.

The regulations were also applied at this year’s ICC U/19 Cricket World Cup in Sri Lanka. 12 players were identified with potentially flawed actions and are not permitted to bowl again in international matches until they undergo remedial action and have proved their actions to be within the legal limits.

Mr Richardson was responding to comments made by former New Zealand captain Martin Crowe during the MCC’s Cowdrey Lecture at Lord’s on Tuesday evening.

During his lecture, Mr Crowe also claimed Test cricket was being undermined by the continued presence of Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

Mr Richardson commented: "Bangladesh has taken time to adjust to the demands of Test cricket but that mirrors the experience of every side that has stepped up to the top level.

"Bangladesh is a cricket-crazy country and has shown encouraging signs of development and, given time, we fully expect it to become more and more competitive at Test level.

“Zimbabwe has already stepped back from its Test commitments to allow itself time to regroup and we are keen to help it in that process in any way we can.”

http://www.icc-cricket.com/icc-news/content/story/253400.html

Shane Bond is a walking injury and may be the best paid cricketer in the world per minute played :cool: He is the most recent example of a large number of NZ fast bowlers who have had continual injuries. Probably due to the large number of games played.

I can’t comment on the power of NZ & Aus versus subcontinent teams as I haven’t seen enough of the subcontinent matches recently.
Maybe more of a conclusion can be drawn after the World Cup but then can you draw a conclusion from ODI matches? :cool: Certainly there has been much talk here about the ODI’ing of test cricket with many tests not going the full 5 days any more. I don’t have stats for drawn tests over last 10 years versus say 1965-1975 when there was far less 1 day matches although that would be interesting…well to me anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

11

Also interesting to note that the majority of the world’s consistent big hitters (Gilchrist, Symonds, White, Oram, Pietersen, Flintoff, Dhoni, Gayle…) are 186cm (6"2 or over).

12

I read somewhere that Tiger could bench 300lbs. Not sure how much truth there is to that.

But my point about cricket is, having a decent number of players who are slightly above average height doesn’t really suggest anything more than a coiencidence - the margin is too small and so is the sample.

John, you talk about ‘timing’ and ‘getting into position’, but these aren’t strength or power related abilities, they are technical skills - the movement isn’t the difficult part, it’s the ability to read the intention of the bowlers, the flight of the ball, the bounce, time the backswing, shot selection, and then coordination all of these efforts together that make great batsmen. None of this is strength or power related.

And for bowling, perhaps longer limbs might confer some kind of mechanical advantage, but so what? Pace isn’t really worth anything at elite levels - more boundaries for the batsman! It’s the bowlers ability to move the ball (spin, swing, seam, etc) that makes the difference (technical).

13

I say possible but not probable.

John, you talk about ‘timing’ and ‘getting into position’, but these aren’t strength or power related abilities, they are technical skills - the movement isn’t the difficult part, it’s the ability to read the intention of the bowlers, the flight of the ball, the bounce, time the backswing, shot selection, and then coordination all of these efforts together that make great batsmen. None of this is strength or power related.
Agree but a batsment could be technically very good yet not simply be fast enough to get into position because he moves slowly.

Again I agreere fast bowling, the fastest isn’t always the most effective. Richard Hadlee being a classic example.

14

I don’t think that ‘speed’ is the limiting factor, it’s the ability to sense where and when to move the earliest (skill) which makes the difference.

My point exactly in relation to the bowling - it might be mechnically advantageous to have long limbs as a bowler, but this isn’t worth anything, because the limiting factor is again the ability to ‘work’ the ball (spin, swing, seam), and not the pace at which the bowler is actually bowling the ball.

15

Hey ravadongon, Good to discuss some cricket here after we lost the chappellway forum to some hijackers from the subcontinent after Greg became national coach of India!

I have been reading your posts/journals. You seem to be working hard and a strong lad at 17 compared to your cricket peers?

All those guys you mentioned can hit the ball very well. But Dhoni is about 5 feet 10.

16

Yeh, too bad the chappellway closed down, it was a very good resource while it was up.

I’m definitely not strong at all for my age (well at least I don’t consider that I am), but I lift more weights than most my cricketing peers.

I’ll admit I guessed Dhoni’s height, as it didn’t list it on cricinfo (but he’s always seemed like a tall guy to me - from the little I’ve seen of him).

17

Do you feel the weight training has helped your cricket performance? What level do you play?

18

Unfortunately I can’t tell you the full impact it’s had as I’ve had recurring shin splints over the past 2 cricket seasons, which has limited my game time. From the little I’ve played in games and nets, I’d say it has definitely helped both my batting (mainly due to increased confidence to play the big shots, rather than being able to hit the ball a lot further) and bowling (more power generated through the crease).

I just played school cricket last season (2005/2006), but the seasons before I’ve played school and district cricket.

19

GAH! I had no idea that chappellway had closed down. I haven’t been on there for ages because the tone of the place changed since he became the indian coach.

good thing I still have my signed copy of his book as a permanent resource… :wink:

20

Anyone know whats happening with chappellway? It was the best cricket coaching stuff ive seen. Anyone been in contact at all???