Runner's Knee help

My knees have always cracked, but now they’re concerning me. I had been doing full squats for around six weeks and everything was okay. I wasn’t running at the time and hadn’t been running for awhile. Then I started to squat 3x a week on a heavy, light, medium scheme. I also started to do some sprints 2x a week. My knees would hurt a little on the inside part but they never swelled. The patella would feel sort of loose and would grind. I can put my hand over the knee and extend it and feel it roughly moving. If I site cross legged I can feel a bunch of tension. Also when I walk my feet would underpronate?..like inwards so my knees would point sort of inwards. I think it’s a patella tracking issue. I saw an orthopedist/sports medicine and he told me to stop doing squats and do leg extensions. That told me that he didn’t know what the hell he was talking about. Obviously it’s not serious enough for surgery. He told me I just have rough cartilage and loose joints and I can’t do much about it. I hope that’s not true. He also said my VMO is fine. I’ve been doing split squats and was going to do box squats to keep stress off the patella. Anyways what can I do to fix this. I think it’s not really because or the squats or sprints, but because of my knees pointing inwards and the patella being forced outwards. When I started running and lifted it just aggravated it. If I do a Hindu squat my right knees is really loud and it’s not just a crack, it’s a pop and you can hear grating. I don’t want osteoarthritis or anything serious to happen. What should I do?

Make sure you get an accurate diagnosis!! It is probably as simple as overuse injury, depending on the expertise of the program design (or lack of).

We will need a lot of detailed information about the injury and the program design to be able to suggest what might be going wrong, but even then we are not in a position to diagnose. Find the best specialist you can, then you might have a chance of finding out whats going on.

don’t do leg extensions! also, your VMO may not have atrophied, but the muscle may have become a bit soft where it meets the knee cap. you still want to target the VMO just to be safe & also work on strengthening the gluteus medius. does anyone (clemson) have any protocols for ice massage or any regeneration for this particular diagnosis?

Lifting-wise:
Monday-Heavy 5x5 Back Squat
Wednesday-light front squats 3x5 and heavy triple
Friday-medium 5x5 Back squats

It was basically a Bill Starr routine I got off of deepsquatter.com
I was going pretty close to full if not full squat so my knees were going over my toes but I don’t think there was any side to side movement. I’d run on T, TH. Not more than 40 minutes usually. Like 600 M jog to warm up, 8 20-60 M sprints, sometimes I’d do high knees, butt kicks, backpedaling, and side to side shuffling (I’m not a runner, play basketball).

If I sit down and extend my leg I feel it pop on the top of my knee. Same thing happens if I lie down and curl my leg like I was doing a leg curl.

If I squat down my right knee grinds louder than before I saw the doctor. When I put my hand over the knee it feels like it’s grinding on the outside part of the patella with movement side to side.

It’s a pain because my parents think nothing is wrong and don’t want to pay to see another doctor. I don’t think it needs surgery although the grating on the right knee is starting to scare me as it’s getting louder. The left knee does also but much less.

Thats a start, we also need to know intensities (actual or guessed) you were doing squats at, and what you were doing before you jumped on this ‘cookbook routine’. If you weren’t doing anything before and then just started the routine, then that is almost certainly the whole reason why you are injured, and if you are lucky it is just an acute overuse injury, which will recover in a couple of weeks with rest. If not, you may require treatment.

What were you doing before?

M (5x5 B Sq)-50, 65, 75, 85, 90% 1RM–This is just an estimate
W (3x5,triple F Sq)-70,75,80%…95% for 3
F (3-4x5,triple B Sq)-50,65,75%…90% for 3

I started this at the beginning of the summer and did it for 4 weeks. I had been doing some bodybuilding routine (6-8 wks)before and only did 5x5 squats once a week then. I also was not doing any sprints. I thought it probably was overuse. After 4 weeks my knee felt sort of loose when I was on my last set so I decided to stop and rest. No running and no lifting that would stress my knees. I went to the doctor got x-rays and he said everything was okay. I had already been resting for 4 weeks by that time. He told me that I had chrondomalacia and the cartilage under my knees was just rough. He said my joints were also very “loose” and I couldn’t really do anything about it. He said to do leg extensions instead of squats because they’d be easier on the knees. I tried not to laugh at that one. He also said do incline press instead of standing military (I had/have a shoulder problem). So my parents were like I told you nothing was wrong and now I probably can’t go to a doctor again. I don’t want anything to be wrong, but it seems to have gotten worse. He said to ease back into running. I haven’t even started running again. I’ve been doing just split squats once a week at probably nowhere more than 80% intensity. When I sit cross-legged I can feel tension on my patella. Like if I rub my hand over, it goes from side to side. It’s not like I get pain walking down or up stairs and I never have any swelling. I haven’t tried running more than 10 meters so I don’t know how it will hold up. I do know that the grating noise it makes now it didn’t even make before. I could only feel it before, but now it’s really loud and my knees don’t crack lightly, it’s like a loud, crisp POP when I squat down. You should hear the noise when I do a Hindu squat.
So I have tried rest, maybe I should try again. Any other recovery methods? BTW I also do Romanian Deadlifts, regular deadlifts, and glute ham raises.

Update–I ran 6 40M sprints at about 85-90% and my knees didn’t hurt at all. I did do them barefoot in the grass though.

i had the same problem…after a good season i started training in September and it was then when i started with the pain under my kneecap. Exams revelead chrondomalacia (not too serious), made some fisio for one month and it did not work. I opted for surgery for both knees (2 weeks ago). I am recovering well and praying that i will heal well and be ok for the summer season. The Doctor says i should training 100% by March.
Anyone had surgery for chrondomalacia ?

If your “joints are loose” then you need to increase the strength of the muscles crossing your knee joint, as they have to make up for the lack of stability from the capsule and ligaments.

Chrondomalacia is really common, and normally full squats are a good exercise to help manage the problem, that is assuming you have no major muscle imbalances in your hip region, a big assumption, I know! In your case your volume of squatting may be a bit excessive. Along other therapies you do, stretch you external hip rotators, abductors and psoas.

Any muscle imbalances you have within you hip region will only add to your pain and you should really “train flexibility” like you do your squats. You may want to look into massage or other soft tissue work from a competent therapist.

This won’t cure anything if you do have chrondomalacia, but help you manage the problem.