Re: How is my 400/200 training. Advice.

Yes, but once you get to the sprint portion do not try to increase speed anymore. Focus only on form and maintaining.

Also, the special endurance I listed, I would STILL go with mostly shorter reps. I don’t know if I would ever to the 300m reps except maybe once as it is not pertinent to your success at this point. The 150’s and 200’s are though.

I would also agree to not to as many 400m races. If you love it so much you should be willing to do a couple meets with the 100m, 4x100m, and 200m to develop your speed a little better and get even better results in the future.


Monday: 40m sprints/accelerationsx5-7 Weights
200-300m of total volume
Tuesday: Tempo
Wednesday: 30m flys, 20m build up. Weights
Thursday: Tempo
Friday: Split rep SE 2-3 x (4x60m 1 minute between reps, 7-9 minutes between sets).
Saturday: Tempo

Now that would be from Last week of Jan-last week of Feb. I need to know how many sets for Wed. And, assuming I understand your advice correctly, the first week will be, for example, Friday thing. Friday, the first week, will start out with 3x(4x60m 1 minute between reps, 7 min between sets). Over time decrease sets, increase rests. Around mid Feb, it might be
2x(4x60m 1 minute between reps, 8 minutes rest). Did I understand you correctly on that?

Now schedule from March-mid May.

Monday: Accel out to 40m.x5-7 Weights
Tuesday: tempo
Wednesday: SE.
4 x 150
3 x 200m
2-3 x 300m
2 x [250m, 40m, 40m, 40m with walk to starting like for recovery between reps and full recovery between sets].
I will pick between these things. Keeps variety, and will do it in some systematic way.
Thursday: Tempo
Friday: Max Velocity low volume.
3-5x30m flys. 3 min break between. start 5 sets, decrease over time.
Weights
Saturday: SE:
100x3. 10minutes rest between

Actually just thought of something, I will have meets on Wed. Should I change Wed to Sat, and erase what is currently in Sat. I would like to have some of those SE things in my training that are on Wed. I guess the same thing would be done with these. Decrease volume over time, increase rest, right?

And, for both schedules, I will follow Q’s advice about tempos. Maybe not going all the way up to 3000m total volume in the season, but maybe around 2600m, I’ll see what that looks like as this schedule goes along, and change accordingly, if it needs changing. Look alright?

Yes you are right. On Monday, you can have some short accels if you wish for some variety. Doing all those 40’s will probably get boring after a while. 10’s, 20’s, 30’s are all good as well.

Now schedule from March-mid May.

Monday: Accel out to 40m.x5-7 Weights
Tuesday: tempo
Wednesday: SE.
4 x 150
3 x 200m
2-3 x 300m
2 x [250m, 40m, 40m, 40m with walk to starting like for recovery between reps and full recovery between sets].
I will pick between these things. Keeps variety, and will do it in some systematic way.
Thursday: Tempo
Friday: Max Velocity low volume.
3-5x30m flys. 3 min break between. start 5 sets, decrease over time.
Weights
Saturday: SE:
100x3. 10minutes rest between

Actually just thought of something, I will have meets on Wed. Should I change Wed to Sat, and erase what is currently in Sat. I would like to have some of those SE things in my training that are on Wed. I guess the same thing would be done with these. Decrease volume over time, increase rest, right?
Exactly right. I don’t know if I would switch because you get the special endurance on your meet day (200m and 400m races and whatever relays). You can if you wish, but I would not do it every time, maybe 2-3 max.

And, for both schedules, I will follow Q’s advice about tempos. Maybe not going all the way up to 3000m total volume in the season, but maybe around 2600m, I’ll see what that looks like as this schedule goes along, and change accordingly, if it needs changing. Look alright?

It looks okay. The high amount of tempo will help condition you as well as recover from some of these tougher workouts. I would consider doing extra core work and maybe some bodyweight circuits in your first plan definitely and probably even into the 2nd plan (albeit, possibly reduced volume on the circuits).

I would like to do weights, instead of body weight stuff. But, I will be doing core work and pull ups/weighted. The Weights will be Squat and Bench, and volume wont be high. I will probably actually change it to Mon and Fri for both plans. I would have to in the second plan because of meets. Alright, thanks for help, I might check back as things progress.

I have some questions for the first schedule, I’ll ask about the other one later, if I find any problems.

For Wed., how many sets of those should I do? How much rest between things? Should it start out as 5 min. rest then to 7 min. toards end?

Also, this whole decrease sets, increase rest thing, is that right? It seems it should be the other way around, could you explain that one a little more.

Thanks for any help you are able to give.

It is increase rest, decrease sets.

And for your first question, it would depend on the desired affect. Do some searches in the training logs and see what other people have done.

One more thing, should I use blocks for Mon. and Fri, but not Wed., or should I use them for the flies too?

I need some more help. My coach says he wants to see my workout plan. He tried to stop me from doing my own thing Tues. It was pretty random. I said I was doing 6x200, and he shook his head says no, no, no. Then he said I can either do my own thing and leave for somewhere else, or do his training. He also said something like I would have to run whatever he told me to do. I just stood there and didn’t really say anything, but I did say he said I could do it. He then got into some argument about something. I think it was about my running form. He says I should lean forward when I run. I told him that may be true during the acceration phase, but your supposed to be straight up when your running the rest of the way. He then got into, he has a degree in physical fitness or something, blah blah blah. I trained on my own thing that day though. He also asked if I trained Thurs.-Sun., and I told him I was injured, no. He knew this, because I told him Thurs. I pulled a muscle, and was resting it. He tried using that against me or something. Was I wrong in what I said, about running form?

Then Wed., he said he would be fine running my own training, but would like to try to integrate other people into it. He says he wants the other “less experienced” runners to be pushed. I said fine. Then my muscle started acting up again, and progressivly got worse over the week. I took off Thurs. again, and went to the doctor Fri. The doctor did x-rays, and said it was just a pulled muscle and would rest it a week. I would also go to some specialist to see if I can heal it faster.

I will be meeting him Tues, we have school off Mon., with my schedule. He will probably try to prove I’m wrong in my plan with tempo, and try to say the speed work isn’t needed. I need backing to counter him. Could you help me please.

My tempo schedule looks like This:
Jan 30- around Apr. 30

  1. 1000
  2. 1000
  3. 1200
  4. 1200
  5. 1800
  6. 1800
  7. 1800
  8. 2200
  9. 2200
  10. 2200
  11. 1600
  12. 1600
  13. 1200

At least that is how it was. I got through the first 2 weeks. I injured myself on the 3 week one, and havn’t been able to do a full week of training since then. I stretch properly, so its justs one of those things that happens. I don’t stretch with this team, I come in early do a warm up lap, and stretch. This guy doesn’t do a warm up lap, nor goes through hardly any stretches, and holds each stretch for only 10 sec. I stretch with them too, act like I stretch, but I stretch on my own to deal with that.

Ok, do you have anything advice on how I can change my tempo schedule do to the injury, and how I can have backing on my training schedule? Thanks for any help

Also, when he says I will have to run what he says, he will probably put me in a relay team, because he wants points, on top of the 400m and 200m. I’m not letting him go over three events with me though.

Personally I would look at a concurrent model like KitKat advocates. Especially if you are focusing on the 400.

For the high intensity days look at the following:
ie:
1 - power (6 x 200 with 3 minute recoveries targetting back half of 400m pace) If you target 52 seconds aim for ~27 second 200 repeats with 3 minutes recovery

2 - Recovery workout (Pool, Ext Tempo etc)

3 - Max Velocity/accel work in spikes
30 meter accel, 20 meter max V, 30 meter float

4 - Recovery workout (Pool, Ext Tempo etc)

5 - Long hills in spikes (~300-350 meters taking about 60 seconds to complete at your level)

6 - Recovery workout (Pool, Ext Tempo etc)

7 - REST

You’ll need to adjust volumes/intensity based on your abilities and where you are in the program.

Cheers,
Chris

I’m sticking with this one. I need to stay consistent with this, I’ve already started it. I got this coach to agree to it. I need help on how to change the volume now.

chris30 - nice looking plan. What is the idea behind day 5 with the long hill repeats? Are you going for intensive tempo there? And why the spikes for an effort of lower intensity such as that? Looks like about 5k pace.

oh to be back onthe track again…
good reminder of what i was trying to do with Joe…
i think the hills are a speed/strength endurance run according to concurrent short and long sched to be done at 90% or more.
-not sure what Comancho’s pace is.

wow. looking over your post.
I congratulate you for your determination, and your ability to take all this advice (all good advice too) and forge a plan, and then have to deal with injury as well…
what muscle is it? if dr. says a week, then it must be grade 1.
general plan:after you rehab and can stetch, start with light jogging… if you can jog for 20 min or more without pain, then you can introduce 50% of max tempo pace - what ever volume you decide.
-see how you feel then next workout start to increase tempo % (pace)… til you get to regular tempo 70% of max…
-if no pain, you can start with your short speed again, and gradualy introduce SE.

  • before we get back to your training plan —
    seems like most of us tend to push a little too much on the hard side.
    consider setting your plan and then insert a principle that says;
    1.NEVER do more speed work (short or long) than what your body tells you (really listen) is within a range of good quality.- in other words, it is better in every way to sacrifice volume for quality;at very least get proper recovery between speed reps - you will feel better and compete better.

ok, I dont get what you are asking about your coach saying tempo is wrong and speed work isnt necessary? … as compared to what?

-what is wrong with tempo in between cns speed work and/or SE to recover and ensure the quality of your conditioning, speed and speed endurance?
(train either fast; 90 t0 100% or slow; 70% or less, and no in between)
this is the best sprinting plan there is.

  • (see chapters in Speed Trap where CF figures this out)

  • if you are paying attention to previous advice re; 400, dont worry; go for it, but be careful not to overdo the SE (you definitely need SE) and I would be wary of overdistance.

I think in pre comp and early comp you should build up as if preparing for 100 and 200 (which includes some 150- to 350 SE) and do a few 400s in comp…this will be counted as SE. keep the amount of 400s raced low so that you can give a GREAT 400 effort at your target meets.
this will be in keeping with what you told Chris30 even though his sched is great for sprinter that includes 400.

Main thing dont OVERDO… you got everything to lose.
I know because we did this last year for the first time… coaches said; dont do 400 yet… what happened ? we went from mid season 53sec (we didnt race 400 in early season - only 100 and 200) to state gold 49.63fat and 21.90fat in May.
How did we do it? like you are pretty much but main thing ---- stay injury free.
I dont care how much you stretch… it wont compensate for overstress.

hope you get this and it helps;;;; good luck.

The hills are about 350 meters long and are “fairly” steep so intensity is quite high for each of the runs.

The idea behind it is to work at longer than race duration (in seconds) while requiring decent levels of power and triple extension.

Long spikes are required for traction/grip on the grass. (These runs are done on grass like on a golf course etc)

Cheers,
Chris

I went to a specialists today, and he says there is something wrong with my muscle or two in my hip. Basically I got an injury in this area last season, and he says something like it healed wrong. I will be going to a therapists this week, where I will learn to fix this problem, stretch’s etc.

Also, I’m not the one being pushy, its this coach that I have to work with. There is a reason I wanted my own program. I will try to deal with this problem and fix it. I will make this a positive experience, thanks for lending your opinions.

Think about some olympic lifts too… such as squats (front and back) cleans and snatches. for sprinters, 400m down, bench press wont be very important. But the olympic lifts can build power and core strength that you will need for starts etc…