Very important point,well worth discussing in a movement,learning,and performance perspective,finally.
Let’s consider first what strengths humans have relative to other mammals,and use them to build whatever performance we desire.Relative weaknesses can then be used to be wisely and efficiently brought up to the level required by the task.
Firstly, there’s a lot of talk about running away from a predator. Primates didn’t allways need to run to escape death. Nobody suggested that was the case but people here have emphasised that running was a big part of survival. Maybe partly, but;
For the most part, primates are good at making weopons. I’d like to see a leapord try and attack a lage pack of chimpanzees. With their howling and sounds they can make, it is often enough to scare of an enemy. Throwing stones and rocks is occasionally used as defense.
But more that that, jumping up and down making a lot of noise, throwing stuff and beating nearby objects is often enough to scare the living crap out of most big predators.
Even 12-15 year old boys in africa have been known to scare away Lions just by waving a large stick above their head (to appear taller).
I wont try that tactic myself as it is a well known fact that sometimes predators start to figure out their opponents, especially when the same trick is pulled on them a few times.
For the most part, we escaped death cia being the smartest animmal, not the most athletic.
Nevertheless, the strength & athleticism of the primate has been underestimated.
Whatever primates we descended from, you can be sure they were very agile, and probably pretty strong.
Here’s just a glimpse of what some primates can do in survival mode;
An orang-u-tan has been known to strangle a crocadile to death. Trained humans have fought crocadiles, and other animmals. A karate man was known to be able to beat a bull in a fight and had done so.
A small pack of baboons have been known to kill a lion.
Now all I’m saying is that, although running has been mentioned, I doubt it was our number one reason for survival.
Here are some factors for our evolution survival;
Smarts.
Agility.
Strength.
Running speed.
GRIP STRENGTH.
Primates ability to grip an object is a major factor.
I think athletes would be better of doing bare foot strength training, and using their feet simmilar to hands. Scrunching the foot up, clawing on the ground with the toes can amplify our leg strength.
I’d recomend anyone who engages in heavy weigh training to do the following test;
Barefoot, relaxed foot, tense quad and hams and drive upwards on that leg.
Second time, crunch the foot, really tense it and claw your toes into the ground hard. Now push up and you will have a much harder contraction in your thighs and calves becuase of it.
Modern humans have forgotten the abilities of the feet becuase we obviously wear shoes.
Also, I think the lats and trapezius muscles play a lage part in athletic ability. perhaps mainly becuase of what we evolved from. Animmals that had tremendous trap and lat strength.
The lats work in synergy with the gluteals when we sprint, just as when we deadlift for example.
The trapezius play a role in helping us relax when we sprint, and they need to be strong apparently, in order to do so. Even slim-line Carl Lewis had muscular traps.
I would say that one of our weakneses might be the hamstrings. Maybe to look at all the things that enable the hamstrings to work well in sprinting.
The synergists to the hamstrings for example. The mobility needed and suppleness needed in various muscles that influance the hammy performance.
I know I’m “clutching” a bit here, but I’m just trying to help move the discussion forwards like yourself. To see where it might go aswell.
I guess it’s very open to various directions this thread. Im just throwing a bit of stuff in it.
Have you taken an anthro class? Early hominids were routinely the prey of leopards and other animals. There are hundreds of skulls that have been obviously eaten by another predator. Also, we are the only animal that strides (though gibbons also run bipedally, they do not stride like humans). Stone tools were especially important, but we were bipedal before then, which kind of makes this a tough question to answer.
But more that that, jumping up and down making a lot of noise, throwing stuff and beating nearby objects is often enough to scare the living crap out of most big predators.
Even 12-15 year old boys in africa have been known to scare away Lions just by waving a large stick above their head (to appear taller).
I wont try that tactic myself as it is a well known fact that sometimes predators start to figure out their opponents, especially when the same trick is pulled on them a few times.For the most part, we escaped death cia being the smartest animmal, not the most athletic.
Nevertheless, the strength & athleticism of the primate has been underestimated.
But the thing is, we were hunted. The intelligence came slowly and tool use helped, but we were still bipedal before that.
Whatever primates we descended from, you can be sure they were very agile, and probably pretty strong.
An orang-u-tan has been known to strangle a crocadile to death. Trained humans have fought crocadiles, and other animmals. A karate man was known to be able to beat a bull in a fight and had done so.
A small pack of baboons have been known to kill a lion.
Now all I’m saying is that, although running has been mentioned, I doubt it was our number one reason for survival.
Baboons are monkeys, but the orangutang is an interesting thing to bring up. They definitely have very strong forelimb strength. They also though have extremely long arms and check out how the rest of their body is developed.
Modern humans have forgotten the abilities of the feet becuase we obviously wear shoes.
the anthro class I am taking is taught by the guy who analyzed the foot prints from tanzania (oldest footprints we have found) and that is one of the first things he mentioned. The feet were obviously much more developed, though from a much smaller animal (which appears anatomically human, based on the footprints).
Also, I think the lats and trapezius muscles play a lage part in athletic ability. perhaps mainly becuase of what we evolved from. Animmals that had tremendous trap and lat strength.
The lats work in synergy with the gluteals when we sprint, just as when we deadlift for example.
The trapezius play a role in helping us relax when we sprint, and they need to be strong apparently, in order to do so. Even slim-line Carl Lewis had muscular traps.
I would say that one of our weakneses might be the hamstrings. Maybe to look at all the things that enable the hamstrings to work well in sprinting.
The synergists to the hamstrings for example. The mobility needed and suppleness needed in various muscles that influance the hammy performance.
I know I’m “clutching” a bit here, but I’m just trying to help move the discussion forwards like yourself. To see where it might go aswell.I guess it’s very open to various directions this thread. Im just throwing a bit of stuff in it.
Some interesting points here.
And I bet sometimes we were able to win the battles. Just becuase we sometimes lost, does not mean we allways won. When it comes to predator catching large prey, sometimes the intended prey beats up the predator. Sometimes the lion beats the primate, sometimes the primates kill the lions and leapards. Also, all predators do a lot of scavenging and some of those eaten homanids were probably lucky meals for the big cats. Ofcourse the leapords sometimes had the upperhand and won the battle. Nevertheless, we out did them, and it was not via our running speed.
What is your point with this one?
That we were bipedal before we developed tools? I’m not so sure about that one. Even chimpanzees use tools, even if it is throwing a rock at another animmal, it is still a tool, a weapon. We must of atleast been able to do that stuff long before we crafted spears etc…
I was referring to very basic weopons. Anything that ws not part of the body that culd be used. A rock, a stone, a small tree branch. Other primates do it, so I’m posative that we would have been able to - as we were atleast as smart as other primates, and would have used rocks & small branches occasionally in some of the survival scenarios. Putting two and two together, we should have been able to do that even before we walked, and ever since.
I don’t have enough time to go into great detail, but early homonids were not carnivorous really (only started eating bone marrow to adapt to the wet/dry seasons in africa) and the fossil evidence shows that they WERE the prey, definitely not the predators. Can it happen occasionally, probably yeah, but not on the regular. That’s not really the point. Bipedalism most likely stemmed from tree climbing since that activity requires remarkably similar biomechanics. In fact, this is exactly what we discussed in class today. Check out videos of the gibbons to get an idea.
What is your point with this one?
That we were bipedal before we developed tools? I’m not so sure about that one. Even chimpanzees use tools, even if it is throwing a rock at another animmal, it is still a tool, a weapon. We must of atleast been able to do that stuff long before we crafted spears etc…
There isn’t any evidence to say our ancestors were knuckle walkers like chimpanzees and a lot of evidence shows at least part of our ancestors to be quadruped. Chimpanzees can throw, but not effectively enough to be a weapon. We started eating animal meat and such before we started hunting as I mentioned before.
I was referring to very basic weopons. Anything that ws not part of the body that culd be used. A rock, a stone, a small tree branch. Other primates do it, so I’m posative that we would have been able to - as we were atleast as smart as other primates, and would have used rocks & small branches occasionally in some of the survival scenarios. Putting two and two together, we should have been able to do that even before we walked, and ever since.
You are just getting the order of these things a little mixed up, which is okay, but you should know that. Brain size developed (and rapidly) after we were walking upright, not the other way around. There are a lot of reasons that are probably related to this (hell, some crazy feminists even argue it is for sexual reproduction reasons, but that is beyond the point).
I think someone else here said it best–you don’t need to be the fastest out there, just faster than those around you!
Ok, but we’re speaking about advanced neurology, not how a group of humans smash a stick on the head of a lion!!!
good point,
can you add any of the research your have conducted on your athletes to this discussion? I know you and pakewi have quite a bit of research on your own athletes, but how have you applied it?
Very well said…
I realise our brain developement was a result of our physical ability to grip and other physical abilities. I realise that the brain developed later rather than “before”.
Also, I never suggested we was ever carnivores.
Omivores I think is the case with primates, as you know. Obviously we didnt go hunting leapords but I’m quite sure that we atleast occasionally won some of the encounters.
Although chimpanzees dont have great accuracy with their throwing, it is more of an intimidation factor, throwing tree branches, rocks and stones. They use that, and “intimidation” and “front” has allways been a big part of primate survival.
Anyway, I do have a question, that with your knowladge you might be able to answer.
Do you know at what point in our evolution we started to regularly use fire?
Weather for heat, or cooking or to scare away other animmals etc.
Homo erectus is the first sign of fire use that we have (as in, we positively know it was used, though other apes DO sit around fires and “use” it to an extent if it is already there from lightning and what not). This along with stone tool use is probably later in homo erectus’s existence, based on fossil evidence. This also goes along with the use of stone tools and the stealing of carcases from leopards. Originally, homonids had to rely on marrow since other scavengers like hyenas and vultures could out compete us and with the advent of stone tools and fire, they could out compete with some of these animals and probably do SOME hunting (we actually see dietary behaviors a lot from teeth, which can tell you quite a bit if you know what to look for). If you have any specific questions I can ask around the anthro department.
Pardon the interruption, but what does any of this have to do with anything?
With the original post, apparently nothing, but if you read most of the thread, this is what it has come to. Pakewi and Jamirok have worked with a lot of athletes and collected data with the OmegaWave and other devices (I think) and maybe some info from them could help steer the thread back towards the original title?
The omegawave data does not exist, it is in the realm of secret russian tables and shot putters out sprinting sprinters at olympic venues.
Data exists.
But then again data is just that data … it’s
Data alone is useless
Well perhaps the data exists or maybe it doesnt, but i have asked to see a sample of it to clear up another thread and didnt get any responses, so in terms of this thread the unshared or nonexistent data isnt going to clear up much.
What data do you want? why? and what do you think it will tell you?
Pakewi and Jamirok have worked with a lot of athletes and collected data with the OmegaWave and other devices (I think) and maybe some info from them could help steer the thread back towards the original title?
I was just commenting on person saying that pakewi and jamirok have omegawave data that could help get the thread back on track.
I was just stating that I had asked for a small sample of pakewis data previously in a thread, where james colbert said it would help reinforce his ideas and help me understand what he was talking about, however I have yet to see any data.
I really do not have any grave need for it in this thread, but i was just stating that it seemed mythical much like the shot putter sprinter idea, it helps reinforce ideas but can never be found.
Omega and Myths huh?!
We’ll see about that!
According to Wikapedia;
The Omega Beams in action. Darkseid’s main power is the Omega Effect, a form of energy that he fires from his eyes. It is not only a relentless attack, but it is also capable of teleporting the target to any location Darkseid chooses and recall them later or erase the target from the universe and similarly reform them. Darkseid has pinpoint control over his Omega Beams, and his unerring aim allows it to travel in straight lines or bend, twist, or curve around corners. The Omega Effect can apparently pass through matter and energy.
Yes, OmegaWave, became e SUPERHERO!
I want to be spiderman, and you?
Lol
Human neurologic survival reaction aren’t different from other mammalians, they are “fight or flight” or “freeze”.
The only difference between humans and other mammalians at survival level are reaction time/recovery time and Humans are inefficient.
Organization capacity, use the grip muscles, use a stick and much other activities, these are not reaction, are ACTION.
This is the BIG difference.
Neurology is reaction, not action.
You can’t control your fight or flight!
You can’t control your reptilian brain!
But you can learn much better than other mammalians!