Predictor Lifts

Hi Guys’

I am sorry I have been away for so long. I have been coaching indoor track. But the season is over, spring is in the air and I’m thurstin for some knowledge.

I don’t realy subscribe to this, but so many do so there must be some truth in there some where.

Do any of you guys and gals know anything about “Predictor Lifts” as in, If you can front squat X then you should be able to da a 40 in X time. Or Incline Bench X and Put a shot Xmtrs. they mostly go like this.

Links or book refrences would be great

All the best guys

doesnt work like that sorry
look at the worlds top sprinters, many run close times but i bet u they all have a varied and wide range of swuating ability. you have to realize that squating strenght or maximums in the gym are not the same kind of strength as explosive strength though they can compliment each other. for a novice its safe to say an increase in weightroom strength will mean an increase in sprinting ability but this a very finite relationship (doesnt last long). if anything plyometric movements like bounds would be a better indicator but even thats coorelation with maximum sprinting ability is limited. its important that you understand what contributes to track speed and what effect everything you do in the gym has on that. look at the neurological effect of lifting ones maximum how does that compare to sprinintg. these differences or similarties are a determinent of transfer to sport.

There are lifts that indicate your your likely ability in other lifts. Don’t know about applying lifts to other stuff.

Soma–

My weight is down nearly 10lbs and numbers are up in all lifts (except maybe bench, which my coach replaced with military press), pretty significantly in some. My times are, at best, equal to last year and mostly worse. In fact, the best part of my race, my start, is the worst is has been in a long time, which is kind of ironic considering the strength increase.

There are no rules as far as predictor exercises go, but if you look hard enough you should be able to find some correlations that hold true to yourself.

For instance, I know that if my squat (front or back) goes up, my vertical leap and broad jump will rise. And as my VL and BJ rise, my acceleration gets better. Similarly, if I get faster in a certain footwork drill I do, while keeping up with hamstring work, my top speed will go up. So, if I manage to lift heavier and get better at the drill, then I will get all around faster.

You might not have these correlations, but you do have some. The trick is finding out just what your correlations are.

i have to believe there are rough guidelines out there. john smith alludes to this when he says “I gave him Connie’s Performace stats and he plugged them into the famous German Web. I asked him what the web showed that Connie needed to work on in order to throw 20 meters. The answer was a shocking when the e-mail came back (she needs a bigger bench), everything else is in line” http://www.snelkracht.nl/index.php?article=16

Interesting. As a side note, does anyone know how to contact Dave Caster nowadays or where he posts? He is a smart man.

here’s some for the javelin that the fins use.

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=153596;article=280

the first link uses the front squat, clean & snatch.

Throwing and sprinting are not the same at all. Lifts are a much greater predictor (as they are much more specific) for throwing than they are for sprinting.

I never said that I was looking for the predictor lifts for sprinting. I am the strength and conditioning coach for the track and field team.

I don’t put much stock in predictors for sprinters but for the throwers, there may be something in it. But I am still not convinced.

I think that some people like tables and ratios and numbers. I think it is more to do with the athlete and the technique the employ and their efficiency doing it.

I do use the lifts to improve the relevant muscle groups but I still think its more down to the athlete and their ability to develpo force

Davan…et al.

would be interested in your thoughts…

There was a strong correlation between maximal strength in half squats and sprint performance and jumping height. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15155427&query_hl=7&

& if you have time…http://dbhammer.proboards43.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=offtopic&thread=1158805651&page=1
specifically JackM’s posts & referenced studies. “(Stone et al. 1998) it is logical to assume that maximum strength should be related to sprinting ability.” “(Haff et al. 1997) then running speed may be associated with maximum strength.”

i apologize if i’m hijacking this thread.

regards,

I’ve seen that study. I also know that Asafa Powell lifts the same amount as one of the female hurdlers on his team and that Carl Lewis didn’t lift any weights during most of his career along with Kim Collins. I’m not saying lifting is bad, but it doesn’t have that much of a correlation beyond probably the novice/intermediate level.

I agree, there are so many varying examples.
Bob hayes and Kontantinos kenteris (10.14 100m sprint, despite not training for 100m and only competed in it two or three times in his career, and not when in championship form), can be added to your list.

Asafa Powell lifting the same as female training partner, but with his extra long levers, is probably stronger than his training partner, and that doesn’t help us either.

Their are also plenty of contradcting studies on collage athletes, of which many conclude their is no relation between the lifts and the sprints.

I get part of Charlie’s point, that track speed moves the weights up and not the other way round, as my own training also reflected this (when I lifted weights), but I’m still not sure what to conclude, as to weather I should put weights back into my program.

(As a side note, I have matched my 60m pb’s in this last 4 weaks, = to the times I ran years ago when I lifted weights, even though I am not currently lifting weights.)

That being said, I’m not near Ben Johnson’s standard.

It’s a female with relatively long limbs and at a lighter weight. Let’s not make excuses here.

Their are also plenty of contradcting studies on collage athletes, of which many conclude their is no relation between the lifts and the sprints.

I get part of Charlie’s point, that track speed moves the weights up and not the other way round, as my own training also reflected this (when I lifted weights), but I’m still not sure what to conclude, as to weather I should put weights back into my program.

(As a side note, I have matched my 60m pb’s in this last 4 weaks, = to the times I ran years ago when I lifted weights, even though I am not currently lifting weights.)

That being said, I’m not near Ben Johnson’s standard.

I think weights can help, but there are just too many factors to say lifting x at y bodyweight will allow you to run z time.