:devil:well, for super beginner, definately weighttraining for a good base, what about after i am able to(which is now) squat 1.5x my bodyweight, do i still gain verticle fast by weighttraining or i should do a lot of plyos and that works better. By the way, if any of you can offer me a good plyo workout routine or program, i’ll appreciate it alot, thanks
haha, probably this thread alone contains more valuable info than Air alert, and all strength shoes together.
so, u mean, they didnt work
you got it , man!
To start with, how you are squatting 1.5x your body weight makes a difference. If you are squatting to full depth (like weightlifters do) then you are fairly strong, but if you are barely doing a half squat, then you are not very strong (for an athlete).
:afro:yea, i know, i can squat 1.5x with parallel, mayb even 1 inch below it. Now all i need is the hops, stronger doesnt get me any higher, does it?
There isn’t one way to do it, even among elite athletes. Virtually all quality athletes in sports involving strength and power supplement their training with weight taining/weightlifting.
Some use weights only, no plyos (like Johnson did)
Some use weights and plyos
Some use plyos only (like Carl Lewis did)
It seems using plyos only without weight training (even if only maintaining performance in weight training) is now not very popular.
There are probably not yet any studies that are anywhere near detailed/long enough to answer this question directly.
You won’t get a quick answer to this issue, you should look through the past threads here and in the archives (and/or purchase charlie’s books) to get an idea of ghow to put together a program for your goals
THe Olympic lifts have a plyometric component: The double knee bend in the snatch and clean and the dip in the jerk. Sprinting is in itself plometric so additional plyos may be over kill. The Olympic lifts are less stressful, have a lower risk of injury (when done correctly) and allow progress to be quantified. Power production in the jerk exceeds that in any other human movement. :shoot:
Let’s not forget the physiological adaptation from plyos: Decreased golgi tendon inhibition and decreased tendon hysteresis. Surprisingly plyos actually increase tendon compliance.
In contrast heavy weightlifting increases tendon stiffness therefore the two modes used in conjunction should lead to optimal adaptations
Interesting. Has it been identified specifically which exercise(s) (classical or otherwise) contribute most to tendon stiffness or does the research just conclude that weightlifters have higher tendon stiffness than whoever else they were measured against.
:karate:Well, nice info, and thanks for that, seems like pure plyo aint that good for vert, wonder what those and1 players and nba players do for getting hops? weighttraining? they dont look like been doing weighttraining.
Kobe, you might be interested in knowing what the VJ’s of NBA players really are. In the 2001 NBA Predraft Camp the average no-step vj was 29.38". This is significantly less than pro footballers of similar size. Also, in my experience with major D-1 basketball players, many of whom you would know, they tended to jump significantly less than the footballers at the same school I was at. The difference is when you give a roundballer several running steps they then get significant increases over a football player. This is due to the specific technique of jumping off a run. But in terms of pure jumping power fo0tball rules. Why? They are much stronger. Strength to bodyweight ratios usually win out in jumping prowess.
Originally posted by David W
Let’s not forget the physiological adaptation from plyos: Decreased golgi tendon inhibition and decreased tendon hysteresis. Surprisingly plyos actually increase tendon compliance.
In contrast heavy weightlifting increases tendon stiffness therefore the two modes used in conjunction should lead to optimal adaptations
David could you direct me to some research concerning the latter? Many thanks!
I agree about the football verticals thing. Cory Simon of the Eagles had a 41 inch standing vert at 300 pounds coming out of FSU. LB Boss Bailey has a 44.5 vert at 230lbs. Those are incredible numbers. While that is extreme, I did read that the average vert for a draftable defensive end is vert in the mid 30s. Olympic lifters are notorious for their verticals. There are also guys who are very strong with poor verticals, but I don’t think there are weak guys with good verts…
:oquestion…How did they get these verts? By onrmal football drills and practices?
:shoot:O, by the way, if i can squat 1.5x by BW, does that mean I have a good base already? cuz what i mean is i wanna find a way to get vert as quick as possible, i dont care about injury, cuz actually i never felt any hurt, and its like, 10 reps of depth jumps(plyo), how can u get knees injuries from that?
wonder what those and1 players and nba players do for getting hops? weighttraining? they dont look like been doing weighttraining
i disagree with you on that one, they do look like they’ve spent a lot of time in the weight room.
check out this site: http://www.faccioni.com/publications.html
especially the articles on power developement, plyos and volleyball/vertical jump should help.
, i dont care about injury, cuz actually i never felt any hurt
- I don’t believe you that you don’t care about injury. everyone does.
- i also never felt any hurt, i never had any serious injuries 'til i tore my acl
plyos but very much stress on your bones, joints , muscles and tendons. that means you should not do it without shoes on a hard surface and your body has to be ready for them. if you do them right, they will help to PREVENT injuries because plyos improve knee stability.
If I didn’t know better I wouldn’t think Jonothan Edwards spent much time in the weight room
:)thanks for the informations, folks. by the way, how can u get injured by 10 reps of easy depth jump and all opther plyo works(plyo = 10-20 reps, right?)
As I already said: Plyometrics place very high forces on your muskoloskeletal system (more than 2 G , i.e. two times your body weight. i don’t know the exact formula, it all follows the laws of physics. the box height does play a role , too). Injuries which can be caused by plyos would be fractures, tendonitis, shin splinrts, or foot injuries for example.
BUt if you are prepared (strength/flexibility base, good training conditions, proper volume/intensity , warm up ect.) the risk is much lower to injure yourself.
;)aigh, thanks. finally get it, anyway, what I’m, woprking on now is one day of heavy weight, one day light(but diferent exercises) and another day of plyo. and 3 days of upper body parts.
Originally posted by Kobe2003
cuz what i mean is i wanna find a way to get vert as quick as possible
it takes time. don’t buy into these programs you see on the internet or in magazines that claim quick results in a matter of weeks or 2 months. solid results are obtained by proper training, recovery, diet, and so on. get educated & put together a plan, then the results will come.
:)thanks, i posted what i’m doing already, is that good?"