…
OK, then I guess I’ll be looking for Lance Armstrong in the next World Cup.
BTW, your entire premise is wrong. Bicycling is not the optimal supplementary modality for soccer training. When you are training for speed (actually accleration) then you should focus on that aspect. Endurance training is a separate issue and combining the two (such as biking) will result in sub-optimal results for both aspects. One of the most powerful things a soccer coach/trainier can do is to recognize how to balance these two aspects (since they are likely to be at odds with one another - that is, training for max acceleration will compromise your endurance and training for max endurance will compromise your speed.)
You can find no better resource for learning how to improve your speed and acceleration (even over short distances) than this forum. Check out some of the threads on acceleration training for american football.
Soccer about both speed and endurance. It is dependent upon your position, but I would argue that speed is more important than endurance for the following reason: If you are too slow, you will never get to the ball in time to make the play. If you don’t have enough endurance, then you may only be able to sustain your speed for one play, but you can win 1 - 0.
Also, the concept of speed reserve comes into play - if you can run a 4.3s 40, then running a 5.0 40 is pretty easy and you can probably do it repeatedly without any special endurance training. However, if your best 40 is a 4.8, then repeat 5.0 40s will require speciallized endurance training.
Tempo and speed, Tempo and Speed.
That’s all soccer is - some speed and some tempo.
R&R - you’ve obviously never read Charlies comments on Tempo and it’s relevance to training for speed.
By the way - anyone out there silly enough to consider trying 3/hr cycles for speed - you know where to go for advice on H/s injuries when you start running resulting from H/s shortening after excessive cycling.
…
Rock N Roll,
As Charlie says:
Watch the players and not the ball.
Base your training on what “the player” does during a match, and not the ball.
Another great comment from Charlie:
Speed to endurance is a one way street.
This is a very interesting topic.
I played soccer at a fairly high level for years growing up and through highschool. (Fullback) I received an invite to play with the Varsity team at my University but decided to focus on track instead.
Soccer training and track training have many similarities but several key differences. (compared to a 100 meter runner)
Soccer involves both anaerobic and aerobic capacity. Playing a soccer game is often like doing short speed and tempo in the same workout
Agility drills, game specific play, and lateral speed/change of direction are much more important in soccer.
I would say soccer training is most closely correlated to a 400m runners qualities. Need good levels of speed, excellent speed endurance, great lactic tolerance and aerobic capacity.
We did tons of interval training, shuttle runs, agility/ball control drills, mild weights (though I lifted more than most guys outside of practice)
Be interesting to see what the “Ideal” workout schedule would be for a soccer player…
Rock N Roll, you have proven that you have no grasp of sprinting…
No one is saying that running on the pitch and running on the track are the same. That they are not are obvious to all. What we are opposing is the way you prescribe big-gear cycling as the be all, end all of soccer-training, giving you both speed and stamina at the same time.
Why not just run uphill instead?
To me it seems you are not looking to be the best you can be. Instead you choose one way of training which gives you a little of both worlds. Of course in a team-sport you can get away with it.
You say:
“i.e I will probably never see a sprinter cross over to soccer & vice versa”
What about Frankie Fredericks, Ato Boldon, Geir Moen, Uchenna Emedolu, Pietro Mennea, the list goes on…
lol, Rock you sound like the BS most soccer coaches in the UK comes out with, i can remember my first training session with the Inter county side at 16.
The coach said: “Do not perform any weight training because it will only slow you down” !!! how wrong was he?
I’m not doubting your a decent player but at 6" and 147lbs that is pretty damn skinny, in fact ive never seen a guy @ 6" weighing so little. Your selling youself short of speed/acceleration and injury resistance.
I thought i was fast until i had a chance in 99 to train with a national level athlete. His speed was mind blowing, for every 2 of his strides i was taking 5. It was like he was leaping! from then on after talking with him i realised power and strength contribute more than i could ever imagine.
You need to open your mind to the ideas on this board, at the moment your dogmatic nature is only going to leave you unable to fulfill your potential.
Henry overrated??? that has got to be the wildest statement ever. He is Arsenal, without him Arsenal are like a Car without wheels.
Speed kills, look at the best players in their respective positions, in comparison, with a couple exceptions of those who are rediculously technically skilled, to the average player are in fact fast. As well 400m repeats would be far supieror to bicycling for hours on end as far as improving endurance and keeping acc.
“Soccer was an endurance sport, and there are alot of guys like me, who think guys like Henry who have phenonamal pace are way overrated, because there stamina sucks BIG TIME. He is just a glamed up sprinter who can kick a ball, nothing else.”
Soccer was an endurance sport? That is your statement. Henry is a perfect example of a player that has speed, and no more endurance than he needs.And look, hes probably the best player in the world at the moment.
It is those individuals that got “something else” than the regular player that reach the top. The importance of endurance as a soccer player is a lot overrated I think, but it depends on position. a midfielder should have a lot of endurance. It is different types of strikers and wings. Some are hard working endurance ppl, and some are lighting fast… who do YOU want to be. I’d choose to be fast. Depends on genetics - u cant ride a dead horse
6’1", 198#. BTW, who cares how much he weights? Actually, assuming that you can fulfill all of the other requirements of your sport, and all other factors being equal, more weight is better. Yes, even in soccer. If we take player A and B both who have the same speed, acceleration, agility, endurance, skills, etc but player A weighs 20# more, then he will be that much harder to push off the ball and be a more effective player. I’m not saying train for size but I am saying don’t worry about it. Train to meet the requirements of your sport and weight will sort itself out.
Americal football players tend to be heavier because that extra mass helps them to be more effective in their sport which involves a large number of high speed collisions. But, even given that extra mass, if I had to match up an American football player (say a wide receiver) with a soccer player (say a striker…aren’t they usually the fastest on the team?) I would take the football player every time over any sprint distance, even though he is likely to be carrying an extra 30# or more. The endurance requirements of soccer necessitate a compromise in training and the flat-out speed and acceleration won’t be there.
Is wrong in terms “of me”. In terms of Deion Sanders who was genetically gifted with speed, I had to work on it. I wasn’t born running 4.3’s, 4.4’s… But I’m under the impression a guy like Deion was running 4.19’s in his sleep.
Then don’t extrapolate and tell others that bicycling is the best way to go!
The only reason I can run repeatdly, say in the 5’0’s for a 40 time & time & time & time again, is because of the 10’s of thousands of repetitions I have done from cycling and banging out big gears for months on end.
It may also be the reason why you are not running 4.5’s.
Rock N Roll, you have proven that you have no grasp of sprinting…
Soccer… Sprinting… Sprinting… Soccer… Get my drift.
Why not just run uphill instead?
I do fell running myself, you can’t beat it in terms of increasing lung capacity especially over long hills, In terms of strengthing your legs it doesn’t come close to grinding out big gears on the bike.
Fell runners in my experience have prodominatley slow twitch fibers, more so then cyclists. It may depend, if the runner is running with a weighted vest the screw could be turned, then again the cyclist could be cranking enormous, inhuman gears.
You say:
“i.e I will probably never see a sprinter cross over to soccer & vice versa”
What about Frankie Fredericks, Ato Boldon, Geir Moen, Uchenna Emedolu, Pietro Mennea, the list goes on…
I don’t see your point???..
The coach said: “Do not perform any weight training because it will only slow you down” !!! how wrong was he?
OK, Big-Ron you keep on weight training, I’ll keep on with my training, we’ll meet up and we will see who wins who in a bleep test<<< The test that determines speed, endurance, stamina, strength endurance all roled into one. You may have done one when you was at school. My best is level 21.2 over a 30m course. Only a few have ever got the maximum level 23, one person being Lance Armstrong (did I hit a nerve).
You hold Thierry Henry in pretty high regard. If he got an level 11.1 I’d be suprised. The National level athlete you trained with would probably come close to getting the same score.
I’m not doubting your a decent player but at 6" and 147lbs that is pretty damn skinny, in fact ive never seen a guy @ 6" weighing so little. Your selling youself short of speed/acceleration and injury resistance.
Not IMO. A good example I heard was this. You have got a wheelbarrow with nothing in it. You also have another wheel barrow with bricks in it. Which wheel barrow are you going to be able to accelerate the quickest???.. i.e the bricks in the second wheel barrow replicates your upperbody.
Kim Collins’s win in the World Championships proved it against a guy like Dwain “All I do is bodybuild” Chambers. Kim “I’m 10 stone” Collins blew him away in every part of the race, including the start.
Thoughts…
Don’t worry about the injury thing. I play with guys twice the size of me and my legs still hold there own against these guys. Plenty of Resistance training with my legs, flexibility etc keeps me from being injury prone.
Henry overrated??? that has got to be the wildest statement ever. He is Arsenal, without him Arsenal are like a Car without wheels.
Thats true, just don’t label him as the complete player that’s all. Hes far from that.
Speed kills, look at the best players in their respective positions, in comparison, with a couple exceptions of those who are rediculously technically skilled, to the average player are in fact fast. As well 400m repeats would be far supieror to bicycling for hours on end as far as improving endurance and keeping acc.
Wrong, 400m repeats don’t put your legs through the same resistance as cranking big gears does on a bike. If you don’t believe me, I will put a 80 ring on the front and a 17-11 small ring on the back of your bike.
Crank that for 5 miles at a good pace, your hip flexors and legs will be screaming for you to stop.
Soccer was an endurance sport? That is your statement. Henry is a perfect example of a player that has speed, and no more endurance than he needs.And look, hes probably the best player in the world at the moment.
It is those individuals that got “something else” than the regular player that reach the top. The importance of endurance as a soccer player is a lot overrated I think, but it depends on position. a midfielder should have a lot of endurance. It is different types of strikers and wings. Some are hard working endurance ppl, and some are lighting fast… who do YOU want to be. I’d choose to be fast. Depends on genetics - u cant ride a dead horse
OK, pretty much true. It does depend on what position you play. I’d want a bit of both worlds, and your not going to get that training like a sprinter.
6’1", 198#. BTW, who cares how much he weights?
Because I didn’t know, Cheers…
Americal football players tend to be heavier because that extra mass helps them to be more effective in their sport which involves a large number of high speed collisions. But, even given that extra mass, if I had to match up an American football player (say a wide receiver) with a soccer player (say a striker…aren’t they usually the fastest on the team?) I would take the football player every time over any sprint distance, even though he is likely to be carrying an extra 30# or more. The endurance requirements of soccer necessitate a compromise in training and the flat-out speed and acceleration won’t be there.
Again, Apples and oranges. Comparing two different sports that are completely different (I know I mentioned Deion first). A soccer player couldn’t catch a Bo Jackson, but a Bo Jackson couldn’t run another meter over 500m thus he doesn’t belong on a soccer pitch.
Then don’t extrapolate and tell others that bicycling is the best way to go!
There is only one Deion Sanders, hes a genetic freak. Do you get that. Go back to the quote on the other post.
It may also be the reason why you are not running 4.5’s.
Your not catching my drift. Put it like this (you may find it hard to follow), if you was to run 50 x 40 flat out yard dashes in a 90 minute period, would your times get lower and lower or would they increase during the duration of all your 50 dashes???..
Say your first 40 was 4.4. Would the 47th “40 dash” be a 4.2???.. No it wouldn’t would it. I have been timed under 4.5 for a 40 many a time (when I’m fresh) but can you hold them times (4.5) to the 50th and last 40 dash. For most people, no.
I’m saying I’d probably average a 5.0, 50x 40 dash during a soccer game. But I can only do that like I said before, I have conditioned my legs to keep firing and firing from thousands of revolutions. You can do squats till your blue in the face but you would never get that firing effect IMO. Please take into account, your also averaging around 7-8 miles during a game, put on top of that your 50 dashes…
Thoughts, Comments, Critism’s please on everything I have said, its a learning game…
All your points are mute. Point is are you pro? Do you get paid millions of dollars to play against the best in the world like Renaldo, Zidane, Beckham, Henry, hmmm the list goes on about people you have criticized about being overweight and over rated yet they continually turn out goals for their teams and winning performances, and what have you done? Where has your method gotten you? To their level? Did I hit a nerve…
The point is that I don’t have to run ‘flat out’ in order to get a 4.5 while you do. So since I am running sub-maximally, I can sustain it for much longer. Look up “speed reserve.”
Thoughts, Comments, Critism’s please on everything I have said, its a learning game…
Doesn’t seem to be much learning going on…keep cycling and good luck. I’ll wave as I go by!
I recollect the same thing that Thor does about you being on this board before. Because I remember a guy who claimed he played soccer at a very high level. He also rides a bike for 6 hours a day, and thinks he could get a 40 yard dash number from a beep test. And also enjoys using Deion Sanders as an example. You have given us the same information as the other guy, so it’s too much of a coincidence.
Hakan Mild from Sweden is another person who have got the maximum level on the bleep test but he isn’t even close to the fastest player in the Swedish league nor when he played international games for Sweden. If you want to gain levels on the bleep test I would recomend you to improve your endurance. To reach the top levels of the bleep test you’ll have to have a great endurance to be able to run fast even when you’re extremely tired.
I think it’s ridiculous to say that this or that form off training is great for you as a soccer player. You’ll get that all-round training from your regular practises. What you’ll have to do is to analyze what your good at and what you have to improve. Then compare that to what you need to be good at playing at your position on the pitch.
I’m pretty tall (1.88 m) and that force me to keep training speed because it’s easier for me to decrease speed than it is for a short person (generally). Yet I also need to train elasticity and jumping so I also can take advantage of my length. I have pretty good endurance and stamina and it will increase a lot after the pre-season practise, jan -mar, so my individuall training is more focused on getting more explosive muscles.
All your points are mute.
But the thing is, nobody else is coming back with anything???.. I keep asking for suggestions. Which exercises are going to give me a good lung capacity but at the same time improve my strength endurance. Which exercises are going to my improve workrate but at the same time improve my power-to-weight ratio. Which exercises are going to make me lose fat quickly while at the same time strengthing my legs by cranking higher and higher gears???.. Which exercises are going to increase my endurance & stamina but at the same time increase my leg frequency???.. All I get is “search the boards”, which in other words probably means we don’t know. We don’t know which exercises in the gym are going to improve all them in one go.
Point is are you pro?
Yes.
Do you get paid millions of dollars to play against the best in the world like Ronaldo, Zidane, Beckham, Henry,
No.
What have you done? Where has your method gotten you? To their level? Did I hit a nerve…
Just give a 2 more years. Its like this… In 2 years if I make it to the top I will have…
Stamina
Endurance
Acceleration
I can’t see myself as having good top end speed I don’t have the build to hit the power/strength sled at 50m, (which ain’t needed anyway) unless the defenders on the opposing team are so far up the pitch in the other teams half you have a 70m sprint between you and the opposing goal. You don’t see that. I just need a yard and good acc over 20 or so yards.
I do tons of ball work i.e speed juggling etc etc which improves…
My touch on the ball,
Control,
Handling the ball quicker and faster,
Develops better balance and coordination,
Weight of pass,
Passing,
Technique,
Awareness etc
And, then I will have almost everything a soccer player should have, almost complete.
Doesn’t seem to be much learning going on…keep cycling and good luck. I’ll wave as I go by!
Orrrrr would you, I’d like that, Thanks… 
R&R - question?
Have you read the CFTS or Speed Trap?
This is where your understanding of running is wrong. No matter if it is on the track or on the pitch, strenght and power is what will make you accelerate fast. Top-speed is a completely different thing altogether.
You are quite right that in a game you never hit top-speed, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t need it.
Say that you can run 20 yards seven times at a 100% intensity and that at 95% intensity you can run it fifteen times.
If you improve your top-speed, that is if you improve your running at a 100% intensity, you will also increase the intensity, the speed at which you are able to run the 20 yards fifteen times.
This is what is meant by speed-reserve. While playing a game of soccer you are already utilizing it. Now, enhance it!
The point is that there are no exercises that can improve all these skills in one go. Not even big-gear cycling.
What you describe is nothing more than long intervalls, and it is my belief that this are better done with light gears so that the buildup of lactic-acid doesn’t get in the way of a good cardiovascular workout. Leave the strenght-training for the gym.
If you want to be the best you can be, you will have to divide your training into a speed and an endurance component. There will always be a compromise. The real skill to be learned is how to make this compromise work in the best way possible.