Olympic Lifts

[system]

@James_Smith

I agree with the entirety of your post.

I think it’s important to note, however, that the particularities of one high level coach’s experience are, at best, only beneficial for the consideration of others; as all we can gather from that coach’s efforts are that what he/she did worked for their athletes.

Here we have Charlie’s, and others, viewpoints for our consideration.

While my statements often occupy the minority viewpoint I should note that my objective in sharing them on an open forum is simply to inspire the critical thinking of others.

So what’s interesting to note is the comparison of high level programs/coaches and in this regard, if we consider sprint/T&F programs, I’ll remind the group that various coaches/programs demonstrate continued success via widely varying strategic/methodological approaches- the only commonality between all of them is their sprinters sprint.

All other training elements, therefore, become debatable and in this regard we are justified in creating a hierarchy of what is necessary and what is not relative to the needs of the athlete.

What I contend is that, despite the claim of any coach, regardless of his her resume, is that no sprinter is dependent upon any singular training means other than sprinting.

Again, I am not sure we can say this.

True, the only commonality between DIFFERENT sprinters as a whole is sprinting, but that does not logically mean we can then decide that the rest is irrelevant or the same or unimportant. That does not mean that, because one thing sticks out, the rest is interchangable and dependent only on the situation (coaching/facilities/etc.). Quite clearly, some athletes do well when other factors (General and/or Specific) are in place that may not be exactly sprinting. Not everyone is going to maximize their sprinting ability and strength needed to sprint doing just 2x6 on the squat. Charlie’s 2nd fastest male (McKoy in 6.49) back in the Optimist group did cleans… would he have ran the same if he did squats in place of these? Eh… hard to go back and make those kind of claims.

My two fastest American footballers, whom I referenced, are excellent testimonials to the point I’m making.

Both very fast, incredible vertical and horizontal jumping ability and neither squat. To add to the variability, one belt squats and the other performs a single leg squat with the rear foot elevated. The one who belt squats perform dumbbell floor presses and the one who single leg squats performs bench presses.

The commonalities for these two, as well as the rest of my skill crew, is that everyone sprints, throws med balls explosively, and performs various jumps.

In regards to speed improvement only, I might very well be able to eliminate the throws and the jumps; however, I test my guys in throws and jumps so I keep those means in the program and ultimately, they will all be tested in the jumps on Pro Day or Combine so the throws are the only CNS intensive means that’s debatable in my program.

Yes, but again, this only is a testament to the individuality that is likely needed. If it doesn’t matter or isn’t important (which is essentially what is being said when cleans are dismissed in the way described), then why don’t they both do the same exercises save orthopedic concerns? The problem with this dumbing down and general dismissal of olympic lifts seems to be ironic to me because those same programs tend to use great variation in the static lifts between athletes, which seems to go in the face of doing something that is the most basic and easy to learn?

Saying olympic lifts are not necessary for EVERYone is one thing. Saying, however, that they are not important for some individuals or that identical results could be had for everyone without them seems inappropriate. Just like you couldn’t switch between S->L and L->S with equal results between individuals, I don’t think you could change the lifting programs as seems to be implied either.