My parallel "vs" my olympic full squat.

When I do parallel squats I don’t seem to get much progression. The only reason I do parallel squats is becuase the knee does not go above parallel when sprinting and becuase Ben Johnson did paralel squats.
However, whenever I’ve done full olympic style squats the proression is allways very aparent and pleasing. This is quite bizzarr and I wonder why. I have long levers and when I do parallel squtas there is some degree of forwards lean, that’s for sure. Yet, when I do full squats (and with a slightly narrower stance) there is not as much forwards lean.
So the full squat seems to help me concentrate more on the leg drive, not just butt and back.
In the full squat the but is much closer behind (and down) towards the ankle than in the parallel squat so the irony for me is that the full squat shortens the lever discrepensies more than the parallel squat.
In the full squat I am also able to dissinhibit the golgi-tendon organ reflex by resting at the bottom of the lift for 3 to 5 seconds before driving upwards. I think this deffinately makes a differance to strength gains. Ofcourse I could “puase” in the parallel squat but it would not be as good disinhibition becuase there would still be a lot of tension/energy supporting the weight.
I recall my best ever squat lift was for “x” amount of weight for 6 reps strict in full squat fashion. This was when I was about 18 or 19 years old. I’m 28 right now. Several months ago I started doing full squats after no training for 3 months. Within 3 sessions I was full squatting (comfortably) for 3 reps what I had parallel squatted for 2 reps several months earlier!! " £ $ % ^ & * ? ( ) ! !
For some reason, I did not carry on with the full squats, (probably my subconscious telling me to stop doing things I can become good at, again).(I’m on to it)
Anyway, anybody else have a similar scenario for preffering one way of doing a lift over another becuase of leverage or similar factors??
…and, what do u guys think I should do?
I need more thigh developement though and I think the parallel squat offers more quad stimulas?
How about I do;

Olympic full squat
front squat or elevated heel squat
glute ham raises.

(in a previous post I wrote about doing weighted single leg squatsas my main exercise but after reading some of the follow up posts I decided to drop them and started going back to the gym for better strength exercises.)

Please critique my above choice for 3 lower body exercises.

Sorry Goose I had to laugh - disinhibit :confused: :confused:

A brief Biomech lesson:

Muscle spindles, arranged in parallel, respond to stretch by inducing a myostatic reflex in an effort to keep the muscle close to its’ resting length. This reflex increases neural drive and therefore, also the maximum force compared to that possible without pre stretch.

The opposing, protective feedback system is known as the Golgi tendon reflex. The Golgi tendon organs, arranged in series with the muscle, respond to increased tension by inhibiting maximum force development. One of the adaptations to plyometric training therefore, is to maximise the stretch reflex and to minimise Golgi tendon inhibition.

The increased work possible following stretch is however, predominantly due to the elastic energy stored in the tendon.

P.S Keep to full squats

Yes, disinhibit. I have heard the terminology used by Pavel Tsatsouline.
“golgi tendon organ disinhibition.” (issue 151 ot testosterone magazine.)
here is the link;

P.s: unlike golgi tendon inhibition `It is NOT a term for what the body does :frowning: , it is a “training principle” desighned to be the oppositte of inhibition.

David W, are you honestly sorry about “having to laugh”?

Either you (British weightlifting coach), have never heard of the principle before, OR Pavel Tsatsouline “the Evil Russian” trainer of many athletes, writer of training books and first hand witnessing of the Russian olympic weigtlifting training principles, former physical training instructor for Spetsnaz, the Soviet special forces, now training American special forces, nationally ranked in the sport of kettle bell lifting, most respected martial arts conditioning specialist in the world, and holds a Soviet Physical Culture degree in physiology and coaching.

One of you is wrong and I don’t particularly like being laughed at.

The main thing is, I’ve noticed quicker improvements in strength when I puase at the bottom of reps, enough time to get rid of some of the stored energy(or whatever), than when I come back up straight away.
What would be the ideal terminology for this?, whatever it is, I like it.

Dave - thanks for the clear description.

See below post.

Yes sir, and here it is…(between the stars.)

Pavel Tsatsouline; Quote; “…Strength training for sports does not rely on sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, unless you are a sumo wrestler or a football lineman. It should focus on myofibrillar hypertrophy through many sets of low reps and, more importantly, on a host of neural factors: motoneuron excitability, neural drive,********** Golgi tendon organ disinhibition,********** etc. What bothers me is when newbies who come to the gym to up their strength for, say, Alpine skiing, are told to do three sets of ten for lunges, leg presses, leg curls, and other fluff instead of simply hitting five sets of five for squats or deads…”

This is from an interview he had with Testosterone magazine.

So David W, who is wrong?
You or Pavel Tsatsouline? Golgi tendon organ disinhibition,

What is the opposite of inhibition?? Absence of inhibition? I don’t think such a word exhists… Anyhow we’re splitting hairs.

Pausing at the bottom of a squat does not reduce Golgi tendon inhibition, (disinhibition??) it reduces stored elastic energy and the Myostatic reflex. Yes, the muscle must then perform more work.

I have however found pausing in a deep squat position can aggravate the patella tendon. Also, since greater loads are possible when utilising the SSC, the stimulus eccentrically and in the outer range is greater. Ultimately, to lift more the Myostatic reflex should be maximised not inhibited.

Tempo is however an additional variable that can be manipulated to overcome plateaus. Westside have certainly produced impressive results using this approach…

I do have the Pavel book you quote - its quite poor.

should we focus on developing the myostatic reflex when developing strength in squats?
Also, I haven’t personally found aggravation of the patella tendon with deep pause squats so I think I’ll probably make them a big part of my strength work.
David W, what do u think of front squats and glute ham raises for long legged sprinter(who will deffinately carry on with full back squats,) ?

Goose - I meant no disrespect

Glute Ham Raises are a great exercise. Unfortunately I don’t find too many athletes who can perform even one strict repetition. If you can… do!

As a sprinter, my personal opinion is that back squats should be your core exercise. Front squats limit torso inclination and therefore the moment arm at the knee cannot be shortened. THis makes the quads a more significant limiting factor, and is why you hear people saying, ‘Front squats hit the quads harder’. I’m not definately sure that this is the case because maximum loads are greater in the back squat. If you’re focus is the first 10 -15 where knee flexion is more pronounced metres perhaps…

Front squats may also be useful if CNS stress needs to be reduced.

Could you explain what you just said in simpler terms please?

He means that; Unless u stick your knees out in front on your toes, you’re not going to be able to descend that far down in a front squat.
He is also saying that in OTHER squat variations where there is more forward lean in the torso, the Gluteals and Hams and lower back will bear the brunt of the work as opposed to the quads in the front squat.

Basically he means that the lifter can make the back squat easier by raising his butt faster than his chest. A front squat makes this difficult because the lifter will dump the bar.

A great combo I have been using is front squat combined with snatch grip deads on my accel days :slight_smile:

On my other weight day I do front squat with weighted barbell stepups to high box. Works great and not too bad a CNS impact :slight_smile:

Well I can definitely see how the glutes and hams would take more in the back squat since your torso can lean forward and your butt goes back more. However, how the hell do you do a full squat if your knees don’t go over your toes. If you are lanky at all, that seems impossible.

He means that; Unless u stick your knees out in front on your toes, you’re not going to be able to descend that far down in a front squat.

I don’t know where you plucked this from. :confused:

I was confused too, I didnt gather that from your post. As far as I know my knee position is similar for both OLY fronts and back squats…

I feel plenty of hammie and glute when doing front squats, plus off course VMO action. Plus front squats can be done several ways as well, and you can actually frontsquat with some forward lean, at least I seem to be able to, sitting the hips slightly further back.

I can also vary how the back squats feel how upright I set myself/ and how far the hips go back.

There are many shades of technique :slight_smile:

My bad, and yes, I’m a little lanky and have allways had a bit of a problem with front squats.

I’ve lately discovered that by using “wrist straps” (my hands will be about
6 inches ABOVE the bar) holding onto the straps that r looped onto the bar… well this is the only way I can effectively do front squats, and can go deep in them this way.