PROCEDURE: KNEE MRI W/O CONTRAST ®
DIAGNOSIS CODES: 717.9/717.9
STUDY DATE 08/05/2003 7:24PM
INICATION: ASSESS FOR MENISCUS TEAR
CONTRAST/DOSE:
Report: Coronal T1 weighted spin echo, sagittal fat-suppressed proton density weighted fast spin ech, axial fat-suppressed dual echo T2 weighted fast spin echo and sagittal water excitation 3D FLASH images are obtained with multplanr reformation of the FLASH images.
A borderline knee joint effusion is shown. The cruciate and collateral ligaments are intact and knee tendons are normal. No meniscal tear is shown. There is no focal chondral defect demonstrated. The bone marrow signal is normal. No bone or soft tissue mass is shown
IMPRESSION: NEGATIVE STUDY BY MRI
IMAGING CRITERIA
CTP CODE: MULTIPLANAR REFORMATION: 76375
Comments: What is a borderline knee fusion. Also MRI’s have 95% success rate. I cant believe it did not show anything. Would it make a difference if this is with or without contrast. I have a doctor who wants to take a look with an athroscope. He is willing to do surgery even though it didnt show anything??? I might have exargerated a little bit on the pain but I needed the MRI. Is this a good idea. I am heavily considering prolotherapy and other options. I just started taking consequin today. Any thoughts on these results.
Could a border line knee effusion really be a meniscus or cartilage tear in discuise. I dont know that much about MRI’s but the photos show what looks like more then just a border line knee effusion. What are the forum’s thoughts on arthroscopy surgery? I swear it looks like you can actually see a tear on my knee. Where a small white spot is? Maybe Im wrong though.
Ok a borderline joint effusion means I have water in the knee. When I flex both my knees I can see that my right knee is visably swollen but only at the meniscus area. It looks like I have twice the amount of muscle I had before but only when I flex. But again this is water build up. You can visible see the difference otherwise but you have to really closely examine both knee’s. My question is, should I have this drained first. I believe that the water build up or joint effusion is caused because the body is trying to protect itself from bruised cartilage. Or a traumatic injury. Also the new england journal of medicine sites a poor sucess rate with arthoroscopy (no better then placebo) but yet how in the world did they come to this conclusion. The ages, conditions, and procedure was not discussed in the study. I think they rigged it. Anyone with MRI experience please comment. Thanks.
Rupert good idea. I’m working on it. I want to get my MRI pictures along with the pictures of my knee on here. I might need some help though. Im going to kinko’s Monday to see if they can give me some proffesional help.
ESPN 3 why would an MRI anthrogram make a difference. Also what about an athroscope. I probally should have been standing during the test but where do you find those type of MRI’s. Its very very suspect the whole MRI deal. From what I have read about MRI’s they seem as ineffective as as anything other test. It seems that the radiologist by the turn of the dial could easily cause an effusion tear or other type of faulty info on the screen. As some radiologists read tears as signal changes and vice versa. How do you know for sure. Also there are so many parts to it. The actual test (how its performed), the radiologist, the orthopedic dr. and you. Are we really all working in collaboration with one another. MRI’s are good for major injuries but not what I have. Mine is not major. Small tears will not show up. I can still put full pressure on my knee, squat the same and sprint. All though a day later it is sore. I probally have a type 1 tear. Nothin serious. Probally doesnt even require surgery. Prolotherapy will eliminate this completly. Also consequin has reduced 50% of my swelling in just three days.
…also MRI’s are scary as heck. I thought I was going to die. They just through you in there and your staring at the top of the mri machine. While noises are going off around you for at least 20 minutes. Not the funnest thing I have ever done.
Have your tried glucosamine, chrondroitin and MSM ? I believe that these supps have been clinically shown to effect improvements in knee pain due to cartiledge/meniscus damage and can even help with repair.
I also understand that SAMe has some positive effects. Personally, I have heard enough horror stories about surgery that I would do everything possible to rehab using non-surgical means before going that route. If you can sprint, lift and train, then perhaps your focus should simply be on managing and working with the pain. On the other hand, I’m not a doctor and I don’t even play one on TV (but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last weekend
Have your tried glucosamine, chrondroitin and MSM ? I believe that these supps have been clinically shown to effect improvements in knee pain due to cartiledge/meniscus damage and can even help with repair.
I also understand that SAMe has some positive effects. Personally, I have heard enough horror stories about surgery that I would do everything possible to rehab using non-surgical means before going that route. If you can sprint, lift and train, then perhaps your focus should simply be on managing and working with the pain. On the other hand, I haven’t been able to examine your knee and even if I did, I’m not a doctor and I don’t even play one on TV (but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last weekend so I would guess that your doctors and trainers are likely to have a much better idea of your particular circumstances than anyone on this forum. So be careful with any advice you recieve here (mine included!)
I agree with XLR8. I would avoid any surgery when the MRI is negative. you should be able to heal on your own. Don’t drain it if you can avoid it- leads to more problems down the road. Try the supps. and try elevating you leg to promote drainage several times a day for 5 to 10 min.
Yes consequin is the most powerfull form of glucosmine available. I dont want to even mention the dosage I am using. I am absolutely astonished at the results. I plan to go deeper into my supplement program when I have money from school. I plan on using SAMe amp and other stuff. But the main part of my program will involve “Prolotherapy” or “stem cell therapy to regrow cartilage”. I am a firm believer in both. The point about drainage. I was thinking along the same lines with drainage. It serves as protection. Also I agree that only a small amount of knee problems require surgery. These orthopedics try and sell you on anything. If they push for surgery watch out. This can be healed on its own. I am looking into every type of supplement out there trust me. My goal is to strengthen my immune system with every posible thing available. Then try and regrow the cartilage and heal old injuries. Also I read one study which involved taking 50 grams of ginger a day. It yielded better results then cortisone with no adverse reactions. Im going to do that also. I’m even changing my diet completly to focus on pain/swelling relieving foods. Sunflower seeds, red peppers, pears pinapples, broccoli, fish. I am going to follow Commision E maybe the worlds authority on supplements for healing purposes. They are a group in Germany. Im going all out. Even aromatherpy and sound therapy. Also I have started going to sauna everyday. It seems the whirpool bothers my injury while the sauna does not. Its only a matter of time before I will be 100%. Thanks.
Hi Tim.
I hurt my knee playing hockey going on 3 years ago now. I heard a pop when i was on the ice and immediate heat radiating from my knee. I wasn’t able to put weight on it after that. having it checked out at the hostpital the doctor there said I probably tore my MCL but wasn’t sure without an MRI. 2 weeks later I got the MRI and had a doctor look at it. All he could see was fluid in my knee(orthepedic surgeon). I was happy nothingn was ripped. Looking back now I wish I would have drained my knee since I was hobbling around like an old man for months after that. I bought an EMS machine as well as took a high dosage of GLS, Vit C, and movement. I would recommend swimming as much as possible. I wasn’t able to use one at that time of year, winter, so that was a major disadvantage.
My strength is back now, as well as my speed but I do find my knee cracks going down stairs and doing leg press and other like movements. More a pain in the butt than actual dicomfort. AS long as I can’t hear it it does not bother me. Anyway make sure you see an orthepedic Surgeon who you are comfortable with and you trust their expertise. When it comes to yourself make sure they treat you like #1. Even say you are a nationally ranked athlete or something to get their attention. Good luck!!!
OMG! Gimme a break! Your supposed use ear plugs! When I was in there the sounds the machine was making sounded like birds chirping! After that I just pictured my happy place with birds and meadows and etc! I almost fell asleep!
If your cholestrophobic then that’s a different story!
