Out of interest, I had Derek Hansen do the micro-stretching on me and I found it to be gentle and quite effective- particularly with the back. It’s so mild, I can’t imagine it causing a problem.
I had one of my chronically tight athletes start the microStretching routine and she has seen amazing results in just under two weeks. I have to say I was surprised to see how effective it was at improving her flexibility and range of motion.
Clem,
It is a tool in your recovery arsenal. Think of it along the lines as tempo is to sprint training it is to your muscle tonus and you’ll be thinking along the right path.
It’s a great tool and we’ve been using it for months.
It in no way replaces dynamic stretching, massage, ART, ice baths. etc. in the way that tempo in no way replaces sprint training.
clemson
Thats a great idea. I hear so many different theories on what stretches to do and when, I’d love to get peoples’ opinions on this forum.
i emailed nikos (elitis) yesterday to say thanks for the program and gave him the link to this thread so he could read it and throw in his input. he mentioned that he was having problems logging on to the forum so this morning i did a ugly cut and paste job and emailed him the entire thread to get his input. i will keep you posted on his thoughts
Guys,
Just wanted to add my 20 cents worth to this topic.
I too have been chronically tight in the hamstrings, glutes and hip flexors for years and have numerous injuries to show for it including popliteus tendonitis, hamstring pulls, etc.
I started the program a week ago and after two days felt much looser in the hips and hamstrings. I find I am running with a much more relaxed style and much higher knee lift.
Also dcw23, you’re spot on about recovery. I’ve found it has really helped to reduce stiffness and after training.
I can now show off the acceleration I knew I had but was too tight to put into action!!
Thanks for this thread guys.
Great thread guys.:D:clap::D:D
update:
its been 2 1/2 weeks and i have done the complete program every night. in addition to the nightly program, 4 days a week, post workout, ill do stetches 3-8 (following the program:60secs per 3 reps per side) and it takes only 36 minutes.
so far so good, feel lose, “moving easy” and i will keep it up and continue to update this thread.
a great site for stretching is
www.pandf.com.au/
it stand for posture and flexibility
it is great site that has a different appoach to strecthing , check it out will not be dissapointed:D
Originally posted by Clemson
Dcw23,I have been using light stretches for years! I am sure people have been stretching like that for centuries! I think/hope my program is complete because I am only biased to what works. If a set of 8 reps on hammer strength leg extension was just as good as squats…I would do it even thought I like free wieghts better. Great thing is Free weights ARE better.
I didn’t notice this one before so I will respond now. Yes, you may have been doing light stretches for years but so what! The beauty of the microstretching is in the way the stretches flow into one another and also the 3x1min on 1min off. It is very well thought out. That statement you made is like saying that you have been sprinting for years. You could have been doing 10x100 flat out with 30 seconds rest. I don’t know. You of all people should appreciate the overall design of something!
I have no financial interest in microstetching. The only interest I have is that it works very well and Elitis deserves the kudos for coming up with a great little program that can be done at home and costs nothing but time.
Just try it! You’ll remember I argued with Elitis for a while and then stood back thought about it and decided that it was worth trying. It is not the be all and end all and is only a component in recovery but it really does work for what it is. It is far too simplistic and dismissive to just call it “using light stretches”.
update:
well i stated that “february is flexibility month” and since it is the last day, i will update the program.
i did the program 27 out of 28 evenings and did an extra shortened session post workout (3 or 4 mornings a week) in the morning (stretched 3-8) and i am still on board. i do feel more flexible and my running is a lot more relaxed adn feels easier. my SI joint has gotten alot better and i only notice it (i dont feel pain, but i notice thats its not 100% maybe 80% in these cases) occasionally.
i have also cut back on art and chiro for a couple of reasons. 1. when i buy into a program i want to give it an honest run, elitis was pretty hardcore against aggresive threatments, so i figured i would respect the system and cut back and 2. as a result of the program, i dont feel like i need any work. i will go start to go for some massage therapy in the next few weeks, but i am going to try a therapist with a reputation for not being a masher.
just wanted to share my progress, hope it helps others and give the proper “plugs and props” for elitis!!!
Originally posted by Clemson
had the hubris to call out the therapy methods of the 200m and 400m world record holder like he was being trained by idiots because they use AIS
That was a tongue in cheek post to elicit a response. I was just having fun. Re-read it now. You will see. 
If you read further you will see that I am agreeing with you over and over again. Take the best of what of what you can find and work within your budget. Microstretching comes cheap and is effective.
BTW I think ART is absolutely fantastic. Depends on the therapist though and also equally important is how you as a coach work with the therapist. You are their eyes and ears when they are not around. Sort of like the test driver and the back room guys. They need feedback.
I’d have to kinda agree wit clemson on this one. I have been using 60second prolonged stretches on athletes with range of motion problems for a few years now, initially because a lot of them had not yet acquired the ability to relax into a stretch and responded to tension by tension.So of course at first they had to start with somewhat low tension.My idea a the time was that the length of the exposure was the only way to bring on some relaxation when the focus was put on breathing.
And yes it is effective, no question…maybe I should have been marketing it. dumb me!
there is nothing really new about this but it is effective. and athletes learn to do it at maybe an higher initial tension when they master the breathing.
when you can relax, a high tension posture becomes a 30-40% one.
another thing though, you feel great during the time where you stretch everyday. how do you feel when you become less regular with your routine? do the gains remain?
so sure microstreching is effective, but Clemson ids right on the old stuff /new marketing thing
oh and on the totally opposite end of the spectrum, Tatsouline was marketing some brutal stretching (that one was risky) and hell it worked too… one of my athletes had problems squatting upright, one (just one!) session two years ago on his adductor group, and he still squats with perfect form, ass to the grass, not even thinking about it!
But then i surely would not recommend it as a mean of recovery, poor soul was sore for three days thereafter!
just another tool in the bag to use in a timely fashion for a specific purpose…
I have just a number of points I’d like to share on stretching.
Forgive me (some sound odd) but these are my own ideas, beliefs and practices devloped over time - so I’m not promoting or selling any of these ideas…
I have read some of Tatsoulines stuff. I have also been in a previous life a big advocate of PNF and some of Tomas Kurzs ideas. Recently I used Whartons and Mattes AIS, but more recently I am primarliy using the Microstretching combined with some AIS approach.
I read Tatsoulines stuff, firstly out of couriosity - he definitely has some weird - sorry - different - ideas. I found it hard to take him seriously at first because of his method of writing etc. Some of his stuff is interesting.
I have never failed to learn something from every single one of the theories I have read.
I use Microstretching as the base flexibility approach.
To me microstretching is more appealing as it can improve flex. with the least overall muscle stress and maintain elastic or expolsive collagen.
I use some PNF in the close season to develop flexibility.
(I feel excessive or over zealous PNF work with insufficient recovery can lead to muscle soreness and weakness)
Dynamic strecthing only, like N4D before games and to encourage blood flow and as part of a warmup.
AIS, post wkout.
I try also to incorporate PNF and Micro strecthing as part of my strength work outs, between sets.
I do this for the following reasons:
I believe that PNF is such a stressful approach and takes some time to recover from.
I try to use the recovery time to recover from strength and flexibility gains (which have similar recovery needs I feel.)
I feel it also prevents muscle shortening post strength training.
I also believe it bears such a ressemblance to isometric strength training it helps develop strength throughout the muscle length.
It assists in increased muscle rexalation pre-lifting.
(AIS post wrkout)
The one area I feel that is overlooked when discussing stretching, especially AIS is the phsycology and mental approach of muscle control. By relaxing and using, controled breathing and the antagonist muscles to develop the stretch the mind is also being developed and used more to control the muscles. This is vital when relaxation is needed in sprinting (since I am not a competitive sprinter, I cannot be certain, but I feel for 400s, and 200s especailly, it could be big advatage when trying to maintain a relaxed max speed) and also in contact games. I believe the mental aspect of muscle control is of understated benefit when cutting, changing direction, faking etc. in games situations. I personally (though once again have no theorectial proof) firmly believe that this control also benefits the avoidance of muscle tears occuring on the eccentric phase as the muscle.
Breathing while stretching is also largely ignored and undervalued. It’s advantages in releasing tension focusing the mind and encouraging relaxation are very impressive.
In finishing …
To paraphrase Clemson, I feel we shouldn’t get caught up in the terms and names different people give to strecthing methods, rather focus on the approach and logic of each method.
Like weight training, we train with weights and vary the reps and sets for various purposes, I believe we should do the same with stretching depending on the immediate requirements of the session.
(Now guys … tear me up !!!)
Clemson
Yes, I agree, completely.
Many adopt the approach of only using one method.
I feel the biggest improvements athletically or best approach can be made by combining methods depending on the situations - like you say, pre, post, tempo etc. I would like to hear your (or anyones) comments on my approach :
So Starting it off -
Pre Wrkout: Dynamic
Pre Comp: Primarily Dynamic - some AIS + breathing exercises to encourage relax.
During Wgt Training: PNF + some Micro
Post Trg: AIS
Tempo: MicroStretching + some Dynamic
Off Days: MicroStretching + occasionally PNF
Close Season: PNF
If I get a chance I will document the complete programs for more comment or detailed constructive criticism.
Ss
syco:
we only tear posters up that make statements that arent backed up by something of substance or are completely void of logical thought. you’ve made some great points in your above posts i espically liked this one:
I believe the mental aspect of muscle control is of understated benefit when cutting, changing direction, faking etc. in games situations
as i mentioned in the beginning of this thread, flex work has never been of interest of part of my program, so compared to weight, conditioning, quickness and agility training aswell as nutrition, my flex training knowledge is really pretty sad. if you have any resources you can provide on dynamic stretching methods id love to see them, right now the only flex work i have read is “the stark reality” and nikos’s microStretching posts and program.
we dont judge by post counts in this forum, in fact my new senior status is more an indication of spare time rather than knowledge. some of the brightest contributors to the forum (anyone seen kebba?) have really low post counts because they just dont have the time to sit down and share quality posts. i look forward to reading more of your work.
Thanx N4D
I have read quite a bit and spoken to some very experienced therapists also.
But I have my own ideas on each.
If I get some time shortly I’ll post some stuff, references etc …
Ss
does anyone have a copy of this .pdf file saved that goes through the nine stretches…the link doesn’t work anymore. thanks.
shot me a pm with your email addy and ill get it to you asap.
nighty
in the latest issue (?) of New Studies in Athletics, there is an article on MicroStretching by the man himself, i.e., Nikos Apostolopoulos, if still interested in this and haven’t got the info
hope it helps!
PS Flash, thanks for your help on this once more!