Originally posted by Thomas
It is a question of the chicken or the egg. However, in order to maintain the privacy of coaches and playes, the link is not their training model. Their training is based on a sound periodization model and volume is adjusted throughout the year with the highest amount in the summer months. Again, to maintain privacy without giving too much detail, the principles behind the success of the conditioning program are:
Learning how to compete in a fatigued state.
Being able to display strength in a fatigued state.
Being able to display speed in a fatigued state.
Being able to display all of the above in 100 degree weather with 100 % humidity day after day.
That is the reason they destroy teams in the second half. Other teams have recently tried to model their conditioning programs after Miami without the same success. Nebraska was recently on campus asking questions.
Great info…
I believe that this -“Being able to display speed in a fatigued state.”- Is also one of the reasons HSI lift before track sessions.
Originally posted by The Real Deal
I believe that this -“Being able to display speed in a fatigued state.”- Is also one of the reasons HSI lift before track sessions.
this may be miami’s reason for lifting before running, although mostly every college football program will lift before running, but it is not the reason HSI does…
Originally posted by Thomas
What does that have to do with their conditioning program? Nearly every D I football has its share of athletes in touble with the law.
Oh I know, I’m just walkin’ down memory lane. As for the last sentence, come on, Miami was without question the school of thugs 10 years ago.
By the way, their strength program sounds very good, but let’s not get carried away, you’ve got to have the raw material to work with. There are other successful programs, like Alabama, whose strength programs are almost non-existent and they still are very competitive…
Every D1 program has freaks? Maybe, but some just have more, like Miami. They’ve got high school All-Americans backing up other high school All-Americans…
If fatigue is a factor, does more work create survival responses? I being a little lean on cash did not go to U Miami, but USF…what about recovery methods Thomas? Aren’t from Texas, Ohio State, and other big programs just as inspired?
Perhaps what you do with kids 18-22 are due to hormonal influxes of that age.
[quote]Originally posted by The Real Deal
I believe that this -“Being able to display speed in a fatigued state.”- Is also one of the reasons HSI lift before track sessions.
this may be miami’s reason for lifting before running, although mostly every college football program will lift before running, but it is not the reason HSI does… [/quote]
Real simple. Weights take less out of you than running so you do the easier one first. Otherwise you’d be dragging in the weight room. Plus lifting first helps you get in shape by fatiguing you before you run. As the weeks and months go on, your body adapts even better to the work because you’re fatigued from both the running AND the weights. Then you lose the weights and voila, you’re ready to go. - Ato (Dec-28-1999)
Before you make such bold statements make sure you are WELL researched :devil::P:devil:
Originally posted by The Real Deal
Real simple. Weights take less out of you than running so you do the easier one first. Otherwise you’d be dragging in the weight room. Plus lifting first helps you get in shape by fatiguing you before you run. As the weeks and months go on, your body adapts even better to the work because you’re fatigued from both the running AND the weights. Then you lose the weights and voila, you’re ready to go. - Ato (Dec-28-1999)
Before you make such bold statements make sure you are WELL researched :devil::P:devil:
lifting helps you get in shape by fatiguing you before you run? and you’re telling me to make sure i am well researched? why would you want to be fatigued before you run? why does charlie run first then lift after? the reason HSI lifts oh about 6 or 7 hours before they run cannot be discussed on the board as it would break the rules. charlie knows the reason. also, if you are going to challange somebody else’s point of view, use your own words, not someone elses.
What if you have a great lifting session and are too drained for speed work? Most runs are under 95% at D 1 schools. One strength coach that was a former HIT guy (emphasis on former) showed me the players lifting handbooks for about 30 teams. Not to much maximal work during the summer or fall…but some high speed work in the winter.
lifting helps you get in shape by fatiguing you before you run? and you’re telling me to make sure i am well researched? why would you want to be fatigued before you run? why does charlie run first then lift after? the reason HSI lifts oh about 6 or 7 hours before they run cannot be discussed on the board as it would break the rules. charlie knows the reason. also, if you are going to challange somebody else’s point of view, use your own words, not someone elses.
Translation:
I don’t know the real reason why HSI lift before they run…so I have to mar it in mystery…so you will believe my statement instead of Ato’s. :baddevil::
lifting helps you get in shape by fatiguing you before you run? and you’re telling me to make sure i am well researched? why would you want to be fatigued before you run? why does charlie run first then lift after? the reason HSI lifts oh about 6 or 7 hours before they run cannot be discussed on the board as it would break the rules. charlie knows the reason. also, if you are going to challange somebody else’s point of view, use your own words, not someone elses.
Translation:
I don’t know the real reason why HSI lift before they run…so I have to mar it in mystery…so you will believe my statement instead of Ato’s. :baddevil:: [/quote]
the real reason has to do with a certain “spike” that occurs in their bodies. they time it so they are maximizing their speed sessions. if you are not a professional athlete, it will probably be more beneficial to run before lifting. i’m done arguing with you.
Translation…of Real Deals translation of ESPN3 Post!!!
Originally posted by ESPN3
lifting helps you get in shape by fatiguing you before you run? and you’re telling me to make sure i am well researched? why would you want to be fatigued before you run? why does charlie run first then lift after? the reason HSI lifts oh about 6 or 7 hours before they run cannot be discussed on the board as it would break the rules. charlie knows the reason. also, if you are going to challange somebody else’s point of view, use your own words, not someone elses.
Real Deals Translation:
I don’t know the real reason why HSI lift before they run…so I have to mar it in mystery…so you will believe my statement instead of Ato’s.
Timothy’s Translation
Tim is full of it
Question #345346
Why dont you go to UCLA and find out I heard the practices are open to the public.But then again I heard that so maybe it isnt true. Im sure you heard that ato does differently so be it then. Maybe its all false. Maybe or maybe not. Also, maybe these statements are true or false, but your not questioning my authority, your questioning ato’s.
That translation you quoted was from me, not Clemson. I was translating ESPN’s previous post…with sarcasm.
Tim, you have made a GOOD point though…It’s amazing how people find way’s to discredit DIRECT quotes from experts when it doesn’t FIT their little paradigm.
I agree with both ESPN and TRD.
[I personally would be very careful about running @ >80% post lifting though - ]
I would speculate that the optimal way to train for such sports - is to lift after running where the emphasis is on speed quality and lift before running where the emphasis is on repitition.
I think you’ll find that most football programs lift first because they are emphasing strength. Strength coaches are usually evaluated on their teams strength levels. To keep your job you better improve strength. More specifically, you better increase Bench Press strength, because that’s what most football coaches look at. I can guarantee you that Tom Moffit knows that hip and leg strength is more important, but sometimes that is hard sell to a head football coach. Also, with a majority of football staffs, conditioning is more important than speed. And even if the program was truly designed for optimal recovery, many head coaches would not like it because it “wouldn’t develop mental toughness.” Being a Strength Coach in a big D1 program is a balancing act trying to satisfy your boss-- the head football coach— and still producing the results that you know will really help.
“I think you’ll find that most football programs lift first because they are emphasing strength. Strength coaches are usually evaluated on their teams strength levels. To keep your job you better improve strength. More specifically, you better increase Bench Press strength, because that’s what most football coaches look at. I can guarantee you that Tom Moffit knows that hip and leg strength is more important, but sometimes that is hard sell to a head football coach.”
A strength coach that allows himself to be evaluated solely on how much his team can bench press hasn’t clealy demonstrated his value to the program. If increased strength levels are the only quality that you allow yourself to be judged on, you are being taken for a fool. Why do you allow a football coach to dictate your conditioning of the players? Does he allow you to call plays on Saturdays?
"Also, with a majority of football staffs, conditioning is more important than speed. And even if the program was truly designed for optimal recovery, many head coaches would not like it because it “wouldn’t develop mental toughness.”
Speed in football rules over everything.
You make a lot of assumptions in your writing about coaches philosophies. You also seem to have a self-fullfilling prophecy about your work. Why bother trying to train the athletes the way you want to because the coach is not going to like it anyway. You need to develop more confidence in your work.
Being a Strength Coach in a big D1 program is a balancing act trying to satisfy your boss-- the head football coach— and still producing the results that you know will really help."
Above everything, the scoreboard is all that really matters. No matter how you get there. If you spent more time making your team faster, which lead to more victories but decreased everyone’s bench press would your “boss” be satisfied?
Thomas makes some good points. This would be the ideal scenario. But, as spin says it is a balancing act between what the coach thinks the team should do and what you know they should do. Unfortunately a coach will never let you play call but they feel free to tell the S&C coach how to do their job. It is unfortunate, sad but true.
Thomas, I agree with everything you have said. However I am stating the reality of the strength coaching profession. I personally know of a D1 coach who was fired because of the performance of the players on the conditioning test in Aug. The test was a 1.5 mile run. He made the mistake of preparing his players to play football not run 1.5 miles. I guess I’m responding to the fact that you can’t always evaluate what a strength coach truly believes because there are huge pressures involved in football that are not present in other arenas.
