Quarter squats are very good “tools” for maximum strength development in the latter stage of the SPP, for post activation potentiation during power development and later periods as well as MxS maintenance.
You use them later in the training cycle exactly because they work in a more specific ROM.
Although you cannot hit 400-800lbs quarter squats without involving the glutes, the posterior chain has to be trained via a specific exercise during the same period anyway.
Everyone preaches DEEP SQUAT, DEEP SQUAT. But a lot of the time when you see these peoples’ athletes, DEEP SQUAT = 1/4 squat.
From a pure strength training point of view, their lifts were unimpressive. This is not my view of their entire program - it is more a statement of what was creating the useful adaptation – i.e. the sprinting.
Being that I was in the room when they were squatting, and I saw how much load they were using, from a general point of view, I found their lifting unimpressive. It was not a value judgement on the use of deep vs. high squats. Does that answer your question?
Charlie even jumped in for a few reps during that session and squatted a good amount of weight from what I remember. And I think he was wearing jeans - hence it couldn’t have been that deep.
Ok, so you weren’t referring specifically to the depth of their squats in your previous post. Yeah, squatting in jeans can’t be conducive to full ROM!!!
So increasing in specificity throughout the training year.
Axial means spine loading - compression of disks. The point I was trying to suggest is I’m not sure how specific it really is (remember maximal strength has almost no transfer to performance) and so why you would choose to do it if you had an option to go lower safely. For those squatting 200kg to parallel for say 5 reps they can probably do more like 280-300kg like Linford. What benefit do they get from doing this? Maybe it is useful for potentiation but I’m not upto date on the exact mechanism employed. Maybe someone can expand on this?
The transfer occurs thanks to all the other training activities such as sprints and plyo (jumps & throws and sprint in itself to a certain extend).
Due to lack of specificity, the exercise might be interesting to save sprint resources before competitions (or even year through with guys who are able to train for acceleration at close to WR pace) ?
However, after Olu did a big toss in his 100m PB with a double sub6.40 60m intermediate time in Doha, his max strength raised up by 10 to 15% in one month and 4 workouts. What does it tell about the link between sprint performance and max strength? (PS he only does 1/4 squat due to flexibility issue).
Thoughts?
Max strength increase by 10% to 15% in bench? squat? both?
Is the squat flexibility issue something that should be addressed or will you just stick with 1/4 squat for the future?
Both Squat and Bench. He is going a little deeper this year but it’s still in 1/4 squat category in my book.
I’ve seen this as well but I’m wondering if it is a feature of peaking as all muscle fibres can contract and relax together.
maybe that increases in speed brings on increases in “general strength”. Such a huge linear increase in gym strength in such a short time indicates a rise in organism strength , a general CNS quality.
What does it tell about the link between sprint performance and max strength? (PS he only does 1/4 squat due to flexibility issue).
Thoughts?
The relationship between MxS and sprint performance is in fact close.
Due to lack of specificity, the exercise might be interesting to save sprint resources before competitions (or even year through with guys who are able to train for acceleration at close to WR pace) ?
You can postpone the beginning of SPP work via focus on strength training or use just high load 1/4 squats for pre competitive potentiation (day before); those are the only reduction of specific training I see possible.
He is going a little deeper this year but it’s still in 1/4 squat category in my book.
Performance wise you don’t need full squats, IMO. Of course you have to integrate the program with additional exercises.
I opened up a whole can of worms here! Would general CNS trength not be better styimulated by quarter squats due to the extra load? I remember Dave Lease telling me of a paper he read suggesting max strength was more closely linked to sprint performance than originally thought.
TC, I am very aware of the safety issue squatting. I have subluxed my left shoulder 7 or 8 times, and a few of those have been through squatting, so I see your point with that suggestion.
PJ, are you saying that the bridge between strength work and performance is bridged by plyos and spritning itself? Just want to clarify that point?
Maris,
I think it has got to do with why i’m using max strength.
The first season Olu didn’t lift a bar yet was 6.50 and 10.09 performer. Exclusively speed, SE and tempo, a very few bounds and throws, so small volume that it just serves as learning the basic technique.
Olu hates the feeling of his body after weight training with any load, and it was a fight to push him into the gym room. Still today, he likes to have it has far as possible to the competition. Yet recognised the effects of it : The most obvious one was to push his acceleration up to 60m, lifting his PB to 6.36, hence limiting the deceleration zone. The second effect of it was to correct postures for more efficient running mechanics. The 3rd effect was a higher work capacity for sprints. The 4th effect was a more efficient tapering plan. With sprint/tempo only it was very easy for me to design taper, and it worked fine in 2005 with peaks at Nationals, World Champs and final race (Yokohoma but was supposed to be GP final). With weights introduction, planning gets more complexed but once you master it, it gives wonderful results.
I have red a quite huge bibliography of articles warning about max strength training for sprints, but who are the subjects, what is the whole training plan?
Max Strength type of weight planning suits better to S to L because sprints have the priority and the speed comes up very quickly during the first weeks of training, so better move the weights after sprint training in order to not interfer with the reading of the precious progression of max speed and its weekly evaluation.
So, i don’t see it there is a bridge.
To sum-up, i see a parallel progression between max strength and max speed, however, to let one express itself, you have to shut down somehow the other. Thus, what you get in competition is the potential of max strength and the actual expression of max speed.
Thoughts?
PJ, would you mind expanding on the above comment?
The fact that Olu didn’t engage in traditional weight bearing exercise during his first season, may have actually helped his performance as there is research that shows that after only a few isotonic weight training workouts, fast twitch Type IIB muscle fibers shift over to Type IIA.
I would also like to point out, that depending on the individual, an increase in max strength may not increase sprint performance (all things being equal) as the body adapts specifically to what it is imposed upon it (i.e. differences in motor unit & muscle fiber recruitment in peforming isometric, isotonic, isokinetic movements, eccentric, concentric, and isometric muscle actions,etc…) For some, lifting slow decreases their performance (i.e. Ato Boldon) Based on what has been made public, Powell and Bolt do not engage in lifting for max strength yet these two are the fastest humans to have ever lived.
Supertraining provides plenty of information on research done by Verkoshansky using high level sprinters and lighter loads moved quickly. Is there research that says otherwise?
It should be pointed out that sub-max lifting does have an effect on max strength. To increase max strength it is not always necessary to perform reps in the 90%+ range. Especially for guys like Bolt and Powell, who by all accounts are not exactly monsters in the weight room.
John : it was by local strengthening, especially posterior chain, for upper body getting more powerful arm drive, etc. Getting desire somatotype, some mechanical adjustments came just by introduction of weights.
Albert Pike : in his “Special Strength training”, Verkhoshansky gives a program for Boris Zubov who was a member of 4x100m in Tokyo’64, i believe his PB was 10.3h when the WR was 10.06 FAT (worth about 9.8-9.9h). About 75% of the weight training workouts falls into the max strength development category. Which study are you refering to?
Powell’s Bench Press is 130kg in spite of long levers, how come he isn’t engaged in max strength work? (Olu’s PB is only 105kg!).
Please can you give the context where Ato said lifting slowly decreased his performance? I remember he wrote once that max lifts doesn’t coincide with max performance in sprints for him. But since he used to lift before sprint workouts, lifting max would have been indeed detrimental.
twhite03 : true, and sprint training increases max strength as well !
[QUOTE=pierrejean]John : it was by local strengthening, especially posterior chain, for upper body getting more powerful arm drive, etc. Getting desire somatotype, some mechanical adjustments came just by introduction of weights.
Albert Pike : in his “Special Strength training”, Verkhoshansky gives a program for Boris Zubov who was a member of 4x100m in Tokyo’64, i believe his PB was 10.3h when the WR was 10.06 FAT (worth about 9.8-9.9h). About 75% of the weight training workouts falls into the max strength development category. Which study are you refering to?
Powell’s Bench Press is 130kg in spite of long levers, how come he isn’t engaged in max strength work? (Olu’s PB is only 105kg!).
Please can you give the context where Ato said lifting slowly decreased his performance? I remember he wrote once that max lifts doesn’t coincide with max performance in sprints for him. But since he used to lift before sprint workouts, lifting max would have been indeed detrimental.
This is exactly my point. For Boris Zubov, 75% of his workout evolved around max strength due to the fact that he may have needed to improve his overall strength. That does not apply to all elite sprinters. It seems as though, sprinters who display tremedous power on the track but little in the weight room “should” work more toward improving max strength (Kim Collins), whereas sprinters who display their strength more impressively in the weight room “should” train using lighter weights or something similar to MAXEX training introduced by Tudor Bompa (Linford Christie). I am not saying that one method is better than another respectively, but… depending on the athlete, one method produces greater results than the other. Both training modalities “should be used”, with one being more important than the other depending on the sprinter. Any advanced physiology text cover the aspect of specificity. Performing squats (rock bottom, parallel, or quarter depth) close to 1RM will train the nervous system to recruit the necessary motor units, which recruit the necessary muscle fibers to perform in the exact movement pattern (and time as the closer to
1RM the weight is, the closer to being an isometric contraction) in which the training stimulus is imposed. Where in sprinting is that needed? Also, when lifting that heavy, the transition (amortization phase) between concentric and eccentric or vice versa involves a very long isometric muscle action. The amortization phase in plyometrics and in sprinting (involves a very brief isometric contraction) is by far the most important as that is where the transfer in kinetic energy, Series Elastic Component, and the Stretch Shortening Cyle, yet involves that exact opposite transition (or amortization) seen in heavy lifting.
From Verkhoshansky, “The Development of Special-Strength in Power/Speed Events”:
An excessive amount of strength work, executed over a prolonged period of time, reduces movement speed and a muscle’s ability to display explosive efforts. A cyclic, wave-like increase and decrease in the amount of strength work provides the same wave-like but steady increase in movement speed and explosive muscle strength.
From Nelio Moura and Tania Fernandes de Paula Moura,“Training principles for jumpers:
implications for special strength development”:
BOSCO (1985a) noticed a negative relationship between the development of maximal strength and special strength in elite Italian jumpers. Even though he did not suggest eliminating maximal strength training, he recommended limiting the duration of this training period to a maximum of 8 weeks. He justified that by the fact that after 8 weeks, undesired ultra-structural changes in the muscles can be seen, such as a hypertrophy of Type I fibres which will hamper elite performance (Figure 6). Before such changes happen, other training methods able to develop type II fibres (mainly llb) should replace maximal strength methods.
So there ARE negative implications of max strength phases for sprinters, particularly if done for more than a few weeks (i.e., westside-type programs). We have had this type of discussion before, and Charlie’s response is to emphasize short cycles. While you may “get away with” this type of training for a few weeks, it would appear there would be negative longer term effects if continued for a season.
Regarding Ato and slow weight lifting, John Smith does not believe in slow lifting. I have a reference where Smith says, “More than actual poundages, I try emphasise and see how fast the bar is moving.”