I understand the science around not eating carbs and fat at the same time to minimise fat storage, however I was wondering if high GI carbs + good fats ie omega 3’s etc would be a good combo? or would the good fats be stored in the fat deposits?
There is no “science around not eating carbs and fat at the same time”.Berardi has preached this to set himself and his sytstem apart from more mainstream and proven nutrition. Obsessive compulsive bodybuilder types are more than willing to accept a way to make their eating habits even more obscure.
I assume you know how essential fat, particularly omega 3’s are in our bodies. Just as all fat you eat is not the same, not all fat in our bodies is the same.
Fat slows digestion and decreases insulin release. This slows the digestion of high GI carbs. Try to limit high GI carbs to post-workout. You would not want to take fat with your post-workout drink because the whole point of such a drink is quick absorption of carbs and protein.
Maybe if your body was severly deficient in Omega-3’s. (Did you mean LOW GI carbs?) would be better just to take some fish/flax oil with your meals.
What nutrition strategy do you believe in?
That’s an odd question to me. It seems like you’re asking you don’t follow Berardi who do you follow?
It sounds far too dogmatic. People believe in HIT, I train following the principles of the CFTS.
Just because you believe in something doesn’t make it true.
I have used a high grade monitor and reviewed my own insulin responses and with athletes and found that macronutrient splitting worked as well as JB stated. Fat may slow down digestion a bit but remember that insulin response will transport what you have…
…yes, this is the aforementioned “reasoning” behind it. Transportation yes, but that doesn’t mean storage. The fatty acids will still perform their various functions such as transporting fat soluble nutrients, as precursors to essential hormones and compounds,and in cell membranes. I don’t understand, are you talking about a glucometer or something that specifically measure’s insulin? There’s not going to be much of an insulin response if there is fat in the meal. Fat will not just slow digestion a bit, it will cause significantly lower blood sugar levels after a meal compared to a meal with a lower ratio of fat to carbs/protein. This is common knowledge to diabetics.
???
It seems like you’re asking you don’t follow Berardi who do you follow?
Why? Whats your beef with JB? I was just asking your preferences, I’M open minded enough to accept and consider everybodys opinions, macronutrient splitting works for me, so therefore I believe in it.
I think a lot of people have a beef w/ JB’s old philosophies is because there is 0 science backing up the claim. It’s interesting now is that he’s moving away from those claims slowly. It’s very apparent in his Gourmet Nutrition book, and other recent articles. Before, he plastered the idea of macro-splitting in everything he published.
It’s a system, and if people typically follow a system that requires them to eat healthy with moderate ratios of foods, they will get leaner, feel better, etc. But does it mean macro-splitting is what’s causing it? Hardly so.
Eat healthy, support your goals with the essential ratios and calories, and you’ll be fine. People need to look outside the macro-splitting, and the stupid pseudo-science 50/50 malto/dextrose concept. T-Nation has honestly corrupted too many minds with that garbage.
Lets kill this topic now. This has been debated 100^10 times and people keep reiterating the same things every … single … time.
kaopectate and Eclair speak vague and use little research to back up it doesn’t work but I know that small meals and macronutrient splitting work very well with BBs and I have modified it for athletes. Peanut butter and banana combos sound like they will make me lean. One is a fat and one is a fruit…so it should make me razor lean!
Swing by Boston and I will show you what to do and the numbers behind it with your blood. In fact the next guy to visit I will do this for them live. The above nutrition and training gurus shout nothing works but provide little help…
Well said, Clemson. I’d love to be able to drop in on you in Boston, but it’s so very far away. And damn cold (relatively)!!
I actually don’t eat Eclair’s they are crap for my physique and not just because they have both fat and carbs :eek: There’s more to it than that. As your demi-god of nutrition would say " A carb is not a carb" and a “fat is not a fat”.
What research do you want to me use? The burden of proof is on the proponents of this to prove it is superior, compared to eating a similar diet without macro-splitting. How about the BILLIONS of people who eat fat and carbs in the same meal that are not fat? Is that proof enough? It is a misconception to think that eat carbs and fats together is unique to western diets, and point to it as a cause of obesity.
As I said earlier, a carb is not a carb and a fat is not a fat. Low GI carbs like sweet potatoes and steel cut oats will not produce a minimal insulin response. Berardi puts in question the efficacy of the GI index at predicting insulin response, but he provides no examples of a discrepency. It is true that other factors in a meal effect insulin, but we are talking specifically about dietary carbohydrate intake and it’s effect on insulin. The mechanism through which carbohydrates cause insulin to be released is dependent on blood glucose levels and that is what the GI index. .
I’m sure you are aware of the positive effects of fish oil, flax, and coconut on body composition. Where is the data that suggests that consuming them in a “P+F” meal is the only or best way to get these benefits. I have heard several people who have experienced these benefits while taking them with a carbohydrate meal. I even read from a very intelligent source to blend Udo’s oil, in with my oatmeal along with some protein powder. Is he purposefully trying to sabotage me? Or could it be that he knows that there’s more to it than splitting carbs and fats.
I find macro-nutrient splitting paradoxical . It attempts to oversimplify the science of nutrition while at the same making the actual eating of the food overcomplicated. To you and your fellow Berardi “believers” macro-nutrient splitting is a security blanket. “I don’t eat carbs and fats in the same meal, I am now a self-actualized T-man. This will make me ‘razor’ lean”. The human body is not that simple. In fact it’s infinitely complex, that’s why studies from even a few years ago are often out of date.This way of eating is simply not conducive to normal life. Essentially you have to be on low-carb diet and a low-fat diet in the same day. It doesn’t need to be this complex.
I agree that eating more “small” meals is better than 3 bigger meals and there are times for “P+C” (post-workout) and times for P+F (before bed-if you haven’t recently worked out). However it is not necessary to avoid combining carbs and fat the rest of the day, or for complete adherence during the specific times listed above. If you find it helpful to do so, great, but don’t push your doctrine in my face with nothing backing it up and expect to get away with it.
You have provided no proof, all you have done is name call and challenge a poor college student to fly half-way across the country to have you test their blood. BTW what is your degree in? I highly doubt you have the qualification or resources to perform such tests.
Next time use quotes when putting words in my mouth- " Peanut butter and banana combos sound like they will make me lean. One is a fat and one is a fruit…so it should make me razor lean!" So now I’ll put words in your mouth. Except I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. This is how this debate would go if this was a debate between 2 reasonable, intelligent adults:
You: Insulin stimulates lipoprotein lipase activity in adipose tissue. This enzyme halts fat burning and stimulates fat storage.
Me: That is why you should only consume foods that cause insulin “spikes” during or after a workout, without fat to maximize glycogen replenishment and protein synthesis and minimize lipogenesis. Low GI carbs simply do not cause much of an insulin response. It is just plain ignorant to think insulin response will be similar between a high GI carb like dextrose and a low GI carb like oatmeal.
Incidentally LPL activity may not be as dependent on insulin as was previously thought. See here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10333081&dopt=Abstract
You: Well there’s still an insulin response…
Me: Yes, Insulin is released everytime you eat, regardless if there are carbs or not. Insulin response to a meal is controlled by two hormones in the gut. One of them is glucose dependent the other is not.
You: Well I’ve had good results with it and am going to continue to do it.
Me: That’s great. If it helps you more power to you. For me it’s not necessary, I am able to stay lean without splitting all of my meals up like this. For some people it may make good nutrition easier, to me it’s unnecessary.
I
It’s an odd question, because it gives a religious tone to something so trivial. I believe in God, I don’t believe in any certain nutrition system.
Owned…
What research do you want to me use? The burden of proof is on the proponents of this to prove it is superior, compared to eating a similar diet without macro-splitting. How about the BILLIONS of people who eat fat and carbs in the same meal that are not fat? Is that proof enough? It is a misconception to think that eat carbs and fats together is unique to western diets, and point to it as a cause of obesity.
El Lardo states that the billions of people eating fat and carbs not being fat is the proof of what is being optimal. It’s like saying that college is not needed since most of the US can read! Not being fat is not equal to being lean, fueled, repaired, and healthy overall!
Judges decision- Clemson
As I said earlier, a carb is not a carb and a fat is not a fat. Low GI carbs like sweet potatoes and steel cut oats will not produce a minimal insulin response. Berardi puts in question the efficacy of the GI index at predicting insulin response, but he provides no examples of a discrepency. It is true that other factors in a meal effect insulin, but we are talking specifically about dietary carbohydrate intake and it’s effect on insulin. The mechanism through which carbohydrates cause insulin to be released is dependent on blood glucose levels and that is what the GI index.
El lardo shares with us his brilliant use of the glycemic index with athletes by using sweet potatoes and steel cut oats. Steel cut oats? Looks like he was at least a year or two late (maybe elate21) when I posted about steel cut oats to make gorilla biscuits for PWO and snacks and even my recipe for sweat potato fries that are baked. But what is more interesting is the fact elate21 fails to mention his origin of using steel cut oats…perhaps he grew up in England or Ireland? Sounds like he failed to cite his steel cut inspiration. Instead of using the site to rip off basic meal concepts he should have reviewed the the research on many milk products that raise insulin even when they have a good GI score. Yet GI scores are based on a the per gram count and not total glycemic load…a better indicator of what is happening with your insulin.
Judges decision - Clemson…El Lardo is cut El lardo is cut.
I’m sure you are aware of the positive effects of fish oil, flax, and coconut on body composition. Where is the data that suggests that consuming them in a “P+F” meal is the only or best way to get these benefits. I have heard several people who have experienced these benefits while taking them with a carbohydrate meal. I even read from a very intelligent source to blend Udo’s oil, in with my oatmeal along with some protein powder. Is he purposefully trying to sabotage me? Or could it be that he knows that there’s more to it than splitting carbs and fats.
Elame21 in a pathetic attempt to put words in to my mouth by pointing out that some fats are healthy for you and places a lie in the above paragraph by saying that I have stated that fats will not be utilized in carbohydrate meals. He mentioned Udo’s oil something I suggested in the Forum the first three years ago as well as Charlie. But a few caps of flax oil or similar will not create problems. Look at my P and C breakfast that has some nuts sprinkled on top. JB has recipes that include carbs in P and F meals like salads but the key is too keep the carbs minimal. Also Udo had white bread with coconut oil and stated he gained weight from it (body fat) and that is a Fat and Carb meal in islation. Read his book boy.
Judges decison - Clemson again and Elame21 looks dizzy!
You have provided no proof, all you have done is name call and challenge a poor college student to fly half-way across the country to have you test their blood. BTW what is your degree in? I highly doubt you have the qualification or resources to perform such tests.
Poor college student? Boo Hoo. I have logged on 20,000 miles on Delta by the time I was “21” from attending workshops and seminars all over the country. Like Scarface I came to florida with two suitcases and a discman and graduated with no debts and plenty of track and performance training in my pocket.
But then, Prime Time says I don’t have the resources or qualifications to do perform insulin and glucose readings with the help of my fellow staff? Perhaps myself with an exercise degree
and a nurse (or Quest Diagnostics) can’t analyze your blood? In fact my boss works directly with Lance Armstrong’s coach…not bad.
El Lardo goes into research and science nothing to do with what we are talking about in detail by using an abstract. Since you are in college go read the full length publication. But let’s get into the soul of his arguement.
You: Well I’ve had good results with it and am going to continue to do it.
Wrong again boy…We have had great results using macronutrient splitting and this forum is about the people. The athletes, the trainers, the coaches, the fans. So what Mo had a few burgers and krispy kreme donuts…you and most of the people don’t have Mo Greenes genetics. It is about doing it right and not that you are doing doubles and happen to be a little CB running like a turkey all day.
Elars21 you share your opinion, I present facts and use logic and specifics. Macronutrient splitting is not vital but works well to get razor lean and organize your meals. Instead of bitching about being a poor student do something productive.
Clemson with a KO.
That’s all good. but WHO MADE YOU THE JUDGE?
As I type this I am leaner than you will ever be, and I’m 6’5-230, you sniveling pencil neck geek.
I’m scrambling for a digital camera right now. By the way, I meant poor as in near poverty, single mother poor, thanks though. No amount of workshops will ever give you the amount of knowledge an open mind would. Not only are you ignorant you are also arrogant.
“He who knows not, and knows not he knows not-he is a fool shun him.”
Consider yourself shunned.
First off, I don’t think you can call a fight that you’re in, but whatever.
You are an ego-maniac. Putting everything else aside, you accused me of stealing the idea of eating steel cut oats from you. Even if they weren’t better for you I would still choose steel cut, because they make far better porridge. Rolled oats are better for making granola and bars. I didn’t know I had to stake my claim in the foods I choose to eat. You’re basically saying “You can’t eat steel cut oats, I called them first”. You are not the end-all be-all of nutrition. Also check my join date, I could care less what you posted here before, you are not my “steel cut inspiration”
Just to let you know before they become rolled oats, they are first steel cut. It’s not like they’re some rare product.
"Gather round everyone listen to the wise words of the one they call Clemson. He says that less processed food is better. "
Also I’ve seen baked sweet potato fries on the food network so get over yourself.
Your comment about dairy might be the worst of them all. I knew you might say this, so I specifically said I was talking about the carbs effect on insulin, nothing else. This in the exact excerpt you quoted for heaven’s sake. Do you want me to tell you why dairy raises insulin? it contains IGF-1 or INSULIN-like growth factor!
I read about putting Udo’s oil in oatmeal from Charlie in the Forum review. I haven’t learned a thing from you, there’s nothing you could ever teach me. Not one shred of evidence is contained in your post just name-calling, pathetic accusation, and delusions of grandieur.
“all hail Clemson, the man who gave the world steel cut oats and sweet potatoes”
I would say low rates of heart disease/cancer is a good indicator of overall health.
I saw a baked sweet potato fry recipe on food network, get over yourself.
Your comment about dairy was the dumbest of all. I figured you would bring that up so I made reference to in the exact part of your post you quoted. I said this was specifically related to carbohydrates effect on insulin, not other factors. HMMMM what could it be that causes this in dairy products.
IGF-1 INSULIN LIKE GROWTH FACTOR.
I read about Udo’s in oatmeal, from Charlie in the Forum Review. Read my join date. I haven’t really learned anything from you here or from your nonsensical ramblings and vague answers at Elitetrack.