Mack is a 8th grade 15 year old who I am currently training. Goals are to improve overall athletcism by improving- Lower and Upper Body Strength (Bench, Pullups, and Squat), Speed(40 and 20 yd dash) and finally Explosion, all the while putting on solid lean muscle mass(Get Built not fat)
Will post update goals/stats as I get them
Week will look like this with varying days trying to seperate High days 48 hours apart minimum
ME Lower (Box Squat) (High)
Rep Upper (Low)
DE Sprinting/basic jumps+ SE Lower (Reg Squat) (High)
ME Upper (High)
REP upper 5/23
Bench- 115lbs 13 reps, 9 Reps, 95lbs 10lbs
Deadhang Pullups- 7, 6, 5
Face Pulls- 50lbs 3x10
Lateral Raises- 10’s 3x10
Curls(Reg and Hammer)- 3x20 20’s
your right I will keep it to a minimal, but wanted to get a feel for what he could with box squats, but i would debate that, I know you hate Defrancos methods for training football players but I also know a 8th grader who has done alot of ME work and is currently benching about 300 pounds and weighs only 210 and his like 5 11…also squats about 405…also managed to run a 12.2 hand held 100…to get strong you gotta lift strong tamfb…
and Tam, here are some reasons why I have been a fan of lifting maximal and following the WSFSB program for people looking to improve their maximal strength in particular(at the same time their overall athleticism), as highlighted by joe defranco
[i]#1 – It is an organized “system”. I feel any time someone follows a structured system they will get more out of their training. In other words, there’s a “rhyme & reason” for everything you do. This makes you believe in everything you’re doing. There is a great psychological edge when you actually believe and understand your training routine.
#2 – They only way to get brutally strong is to lift heavy weights. This method respects that fact.
#3 – There is a lot of variety built into this system. You are constantly challenged to “break records” on many different exercises. This makes lifting heavy weights fun.
#4 – Every time my training partners and I use this method, within weeks everyone in the gym thinks we’re on steroids. (All of us are lifetime drug-free.) This is because we usually end up throwing around massive amounts of weight. We happen to respond very well to this training method[/i]
I have no problem with ME used at the correct times/stages of development, you do not have to perform ME to get stronger i have seen people get stronger with submax weights, just wait till i start my fall gpp.
your right you can get stronger with SE work, I am currently doing it in my own training, but not to the extent of when I was doing once a week ME Leg work, and my bench has improved drastically doing ME work in a very period of time, and yes he can perform all of those tests except maybe the dips i dont know if i can even do those, but I think looking at generalized tests are a bunch of BS, sort of liek the rule “you can’t do plyometrics until you can squat 1.5x your bodyweight”, if your mature enough and can do fine with your own body then lifting heavy is fine with proper form…
You not doing the kind of submax work im speaking of, back squats 8x3x80 or 7x5x75 etc. Before you make such a dumb statement, many of the best SC use these generalized tests that you called BS. At his age who cares if he bp 200lb or squat 300lbs, its all about long term development., keep learning.
tamfb, your right long term developement is key, but i only have 2 months till i report to school, so 2 months to train him and hes going on vacation for 2 weeks so that leaves very little time and I want to improve his indicators (defrancos)- bench squat pullups standing vertical(and 40), I know i will improve these things drastically which will help him in what i care about, the upcoming football season, so until you can give me some solid facts and insight and not a bunch of bs about what “SC” coache,s please refrain from telling me what to do, thanks
and for the record he can do every one of those above mentioned tests
Bench- worked up to 155x1, really weak and did not improve at all in the last 1.5 months (using a BFS program and not WSFSB). hopefully can improve that to 185 by the end of june
Bench- worked up to 155x1, really weak and did not improve at all in the last 1.5 months (using a BFS program and not WSFSB). hopefully can improve that to 185 by the end of june
Certainly he can hit 185 BP by the end of June. I am thinking though that WSFSB is too needlessly complex for an 8th grader. Why not just 5x5 as outlined in Starting Strength, for example?
I would also suggest not going for a 1RM at all. Kids that age (any age really :rolleyes: ) always want to hit a big PR. He’ll be better served going for 5 or at most 3 rep maxes.
Dan John has stated before that for his younger athletes (HS), he always has them go for a weight they can do at least twice; his reasoning being most HS kids when they go for 1RM a spotter will touch the bar or tell them “it’s all you!” or the form will be god awful etc… Even if they don’t get a 2nd rep up clean, they know for sure that the first rep is legit and can work off of that.
But I don’t ever remember him saying the same for a young 8th grader… 3-5rm range for now IMO. Good luck.
Dont understand your point? When you have a beginner start with the most basic program so you have something to use later in there development cycle, if you start with ME etc where do you go from there. Shit i squat 300+ in the 8th but who cares it didnt make the best fb player in the nation, if anything it hurt my development.
I think trackfan is saying that while the percentages in WSFSB (or really any other system that relies on %) is really only applicable to athletes with a well determined x rep max. But when you have a kid who is untrained, new to weights, growing, etc. any number you get in a test will be (hopefully!) not his max for long.
There’s no need to be complicated in programming at this stage. You could pretty much do 5x5 with squat bench and dead any which way you like and as long as you allow enough rest and use decent form he will improve. Throw in chins and some abs and you’d be OK.
I would use the approach of “if it looks right it flies right” perfect the squat form take the athlete to a 5 rep weight that is challenging with good form…rehab/prehabmed,tempo,bw.basic jumping,sprinting, some agility at this age, mobility, flexibility, preach nutrition, SPP drills and some weights…
