Coach Shaver does a lot of other high intensity activities during the training year so that may be the reason for the lighter loads (spreading the work around). Also, LSU gets the best of the best high school athletes so there may be less of a need to develop the qualities that weight lifting may offer.
Just a thought.
RG
Keep the CF spirit alive.
To each his own. I, however, strongly disagree with the idea that the bulk, or any appreciable volume, of the primary general strength work must be in the heavier ranges.
In my own experience as a weight training enthusiast, dating back to 87-88, coupled with my coaching experience, there’s absolutely no question that sub-max weights are the way to go regarding the bulk of the weight training volume. Regarding what most D1 coaches may or may not think…you know where I stand on that topic.
Squatting 400-500lbs is probably good enough. Easy to attain, but nothing crazy, no powerlifting numbers. Charlie was great at enumerating the benefits of strength training, in the muscle fibers and CNS.
Diminishing returns in strength forces the issue of increasing the stressor to a point which competes neurally with sprinting. At which point it loses its effectiveness because you lose the ability to handle speed. Unless speed is maintained and speed/strength blocks are alternated.
If the fibers that are directly involved with sprinting are strengthened doesnt this make you faster? An athlete with an efficient nervous system recruits X % of fibers. His output is larger, therefore CNS demands are higher than an athlete with lower CNS efficiency. Doesnt this mean that this athlete will gain greater speed through strength training but at the same time strength training will interfere more with the demands of speed? I believe this is the basis for which general strengthening methods are favored over specific.
As for the issue of maximal weights lifted, how many athletes really test their 1RM. I know that up until the point where I had to test my 1RM front squat I would have said my max was 335lbs. But its more in the 400lbs range. Some athletes might be working in ranges but the ceiling on their maxes are much higher then expected.
RB34, I should also point out the fact that the majoriity of D1 coaches do not conduct true alactic speed work; thus it may make for a better case on their behalf to lift heavier weights because their players are not getting the stimulus from the speed work that ours do, along with any other program that actually performs speed work.
If you look at the LSU’s lifting programs you’ll see quite a bit of “high volume”, body building type lifts.
How would they conduct speed work then?
They don’t.
You might be surprised to know that most ‘think’ that 300yd shuttles and various types of ‘gassers’ are speed work.
Buddy and I had a fellow come visit us for a few days who has visited 26 major D1 programs (SEC, Big 12, Big 10, etcetera) in the last four months just to talk shop with the coaches.
Amidst his detailed report and comparison, he noted that we were the only program that conducted true speed work.
So essentially, you’re saying they don’t do any of the flying sprints, ins and outs, 60m sprints, etc etc with full recovery? ever?
How do their athletes really improve their top speed then?
I can’t speak to the totality of programs; regarding the majority that do not conduct speed work- there are many players who actually become slower.
Exceptions are players who also run track or who are fortunate enough to possess enough favorable genetic material to experience some improved speed as a result of, if nothing else, biological maturation.
I know someone who was on the coaching staff of a team that won the national championship in recent years and he said most players deteriorated in their physical preparation with each year due to the erroneous, heavily lactic, and overvolumized training program
Fortunate for those high level programs is that they’re deep enough with talent to overcome such coaching errors.
how much faster (improving top speed and acceleration) could one expect to get without any weightlifting? To me this would mean: how much faster can one get without the use of a weightroom to strengthen the legs?
Just focusing on track work with sprints of different (short) distances. You could improve endurance and technique, but would your acceleration or top speed improve? What can be done to increase top speed without the use of weights.
Lets say the athlete is a football player, so specific technique is not essential (ie: block starts etc.)
Is it possible to get faster without squatting, deadlift, core lifts, --any strength training–
Like i said, im not talking endurance, im not talking 100m dash time. Im talking pure raw speed increases. Technique aside.
You would run sprints or the like about 5 days per week. And thats it. Thoughts?
Oh ok got it.
At the University I workout at I have never seen one rep of what we would all call speed work. Of course I haven’t seen all of their running workouts but at least 3x per week for most of the year I see them training. They do the sprint the width of the field as position group thing and then back again after the other groups go. That would be tempo type training really. They do some agility drills with decent rest that would qualify as true high CNS work.
Don’t look at what Shaver does, I spent a couple days talking with him and that’s his weight room philosophy (light weight and bar speed). If you go down to Texas Am Vince will push the weights a lot more then Shaver. So, who’s right and who’s wrong? There’s no right or wrong.
The program I am talking about does true accel work and they lift very very heavy weights with a lot of volume. They have Lb’s running 4.2’s-4.3’s… I don’t care what your studs are doing, I want to know what your 4th team player is doing.
Keep it real, I’m not impress with the LSU workouts. More impress with Vince Anderson system.
I see your point, but I don’t think that it is a fair comparison. Ben had shorter levers so in theory she should have an advantage from 0-60m.
Secondly, Ben and Carl trained under different coaches and although I don’t know all the particulars of SMTC, I’m pretty sure Carl’s coach did not focus on 30m sprints, resisted sprints ( isorbic exerciser) and EFE drills as much as the late Charlie Francis.
It took me a hard time to actually believe this until I saw it myself. I have said it before, in that I have trained with guys who had the following PRs:
Guy A: 9.9 100m
Guy B: 10.1 100m,
Guy C: 10.2, 20.5 <-HSI wanted this guy.
Guy D (ran for UCLA): 10.3
I have also trained with Angela Williams and other fast girls and NEVER saw them bench or squat crazy weight.
Anyhow, for the guys listed above I never saw them bench over 225 and I have never seen them squat over 315. All the guys are around 175-180, are from 5’11-6’2 and have long legs.
Here I will post a pic of ONE of them.
It’s the dude on the right with the white shorts. That’s my dawg…lol Yes he looks strong but it’s all hypertrophy.
Did they visit Michigan State? 
Let’s talk about guys who don’t have ideal sprinter stats, similar to James RB - guys who may be 5’5-5’8, 170-195. These types of sprinters must be weight room strong if they want to compete with athletes who are 5’11-6’2 160-185.
I don’t work with football any longer (only did that as a high school coach) but from what I’ve seen and heard, exactly as James says, very few football programs conduct what we would refer to as speed work. The work lacks full recovery so generally only the first rep could generally be considered as speed.