who needs sprinting, just do box squats, dym box squats, and jumps.
It would save a lot of space for indoor training!
As long as there is room for “the tables”(bodyweight/speed and stability) we should be okay.
one of my fav quotes from this site in a while…
… and even a T-Rex has more ROM … as for benching …OMG
Sprinters aren’t Simmons’ market and expertise (although apparently he did some work with Butch Reynolds) he knows a lot about getting people strong and his core market is powerlifting at which he is very successful as a competitor and coach. His isn’t the only way but it works very well for a large number of people.
The squats may look like a T-Rex taking a dump and the ROM limited but that is the intention. They are training for powerlifting competitions and the explosiveness is a means to an end (move more max weight) not the goal. Anyone who has seen his DVD’s should be impressed at the speed of the lifts performed.
Louie and Westsider’s consistently take shots at the methods employed by US Olympic Lifting Coaches. The thinking being that the Russian and Bulgarian coaches are far superior in their methodologies. There may be some truth to that however it should be pointed out that the Russian’s and Bulgarians train very, very differently (the Russian’s employing hundreds of exercises in a periodized fashion and the Bulgarian’s employing only 6-8 and train heavy all the time). In addition, no two Russian and/or Bulgarian coaches share the exact same training methods. There is much variation between any two successful coaches from the same eastern european country. The reason(s) for the eastern european’s success has much more to with societal and cultural differences than differences in training philosophies.
Of course, as has already been mentioned, what works for the powerlifter will not necessarily work for another athlete in a different sport. Even in powerlifting, Louie has had great success competing in federations that allow equipment that will raise an 242 lb. lifters squat by 250-300 lbs. Eddie Coan is the greatest powerlifter of all time and employs none of Louie’s methods. How does Louie explain that? Eddie is just one example. Eddie kicks the shit out of ALL Louie’s lifters competing in the same weightclasses competing with much less supportive gear and putting up better #'s.
Now I AM a big fan of Louie’s, utilize box squats, bands, chains and other Westsidesque tools and even like his version of conjugate sequence training (which of course does’nt resemble true conjugate sequence training in the least). However, I obviously take exception to his notions that Westside principals are universally successful and that all US S&C and oly lifting coaches are inferior unless they subscribe to his methodics.
Yeah, I guess the Tendo is spitting out “illusional” #'s. I’d love to see peak power readings for the box squat and the power snatch under optimal conditions for each and compare the efficacy of each. Louie has the ability to do this but I’m assuming never has because he’s well aware of what the results would be.
Agreed, however Louie seems to think that the Westside squatting style provides optimal carryover to other sports. I think not. An olympic squat will have significantly more dynamic correspondence with the vertical jump, etc. than the Westside version. Again, not to say I don’t appreciate what Louie has to offer. I do. However, things must be kept in perspective.
Has Ed Coan improved in like the past 5-10 years? You can pretty much mail his results in because they’re usually the same.
A box squat is much easier to do/teach than a snatch for max power. If you’re concerned about power output just do a bunch of full approach long jumps for your training…
I could call Ed to find out or do a little internet research. My point here is Ed got very, very strong without employing any Westside techniques other than the use of a reverse hyper. Louie’s way is not the only way and based on superior results from others,we don’t even know if it is the most effective way to train a powerlifter.
Bob,
From Charles Staley’s article "Body Type and Training Stategy- An Observational Analysis
Powerlifting Goes “Outside the Box”
Until relatively recently, the sport of powerlifting was dominated by a fairly unified training strategy. The lion’s share of time and energy was spent on the three competitive lifts (squat, bench press, and deadlift), while whatever energy resources remained were devoted to assistance lifts such as lat pulldowns, abdominal exercises, calf raises, triceps extensions, and so on.
The predominant progression scheme involved moving from a month of training devoted to five sets of five, moving on to perhaps three sets of three, and continuing to two sets of one as competition neared. In other words, as the cycle progresses, you moved from lower to higher levels of intensity and volume would gradually decrease at the same time.
The only significant alternative to this traditional strategy has emerged through the success of Westside Barbell Club in Columbus Ohio, under the coaching of Louie Simmons. The Westside approach features a much greater emphasis on assistance lifts, with the three competitive lifts assigned to relatively low (50 to 70%) intensities performed at accelerative speeds. Using this strategy, Westside has produced twenty-one lifters with totals exceeding 2100 pounds and six lifters at or above the 2200-pound mark.
Yet despite the success of Westside, many dominant lifters (including Ed Coan, arguably the greatest powerlifter of all time) still prefer the traditional approach described earlier. Why? My personal suspicion is this:
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By definition, very few athletes have “ideal” levers for their chosen endeavor. Simmons has found a methodology that works for the majority rather than the minority. In particular, the concerted use of elastic resistance in conjunction with standard barbell training develops the capacity to “outrun” the sticking point. Remember, long-levered athletes have more profound sticking points than do their shorter levered peers.
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Dolicomorphic lifters don’t develop significant weaknesses when they restrict themselves to a small number of compound exercises. Therefore, these people with great levers can do quite well simply focusing on the big three lifts.
Of course, powerlifters also employ technical strategies to further shorten their levers, such as utilizing a low bar placement in the squat, employing a wide grip in the bench press, and so on. Nevertheless, if your training strategy capitalizes on your unique leverage profile, you’ll be that much better off.
Here’s the full article:
Thanks for taking the time to post the article Ryan, I appreciate it. To reiterate, I have learned a great deal from Louie and respect him greatly. However, I’m not sure that all of his contentions are correct thats’ all. After all, nobodys right about everything…
I’m with you Bob. Just providing some info. I have great respect for Louie, as well, but don’t agree with everything he says either.
If you are competent in the olympic lifts the power snatch is not a difficult lift to teach. Certainly worth whatever additional time and effort are necessary. There certainly are those who believe plyometrics are all that is required to develop explosive strength. I’m not convinced that is true for all athletes in all power-related sports. Although I am far from the last word on this. Many coaches I respect feel there is a place for both in an athlete’s preparation.
lol, u guys. if u are training a 14yr girl the power snatch is much diffcult to teach vs a hang clean, power clean etc, even uswa coaches would agree…
Actually, I haven’t found this to be true. I think the power snatch is much easier to learn than the clean in any form.
It just seems like such an intuitive movement. Picking an object up and flinging it overhead was second nature to me. In fact, the only thing I didn’t like about snatches was that I couldn’t let go of the bar at the top and throw it for distance.
what hell are you talking about could let go of the bar??
Sorry, spelling error. I mean’t couldn’t. It should be corrected now.