Cool,
What does your weight program look like.
I’m interested in seeing how you adapted the series.
101
CCJ,
I am interested in what a typical workout looks like for you (sets, reps, weight, rest, etc).
Also, what your current split is.
Thanks
Olympic lifts are dynamic (fast) exercises anyway…
Thanks Cool
that’s what I wanted to see
Lookx like a great program. I see influences from WSB, Renegade, and CT. Keep up the good work
101
Colin - I’ve said it before but…
Your program exhausts me just reading it. I think you would definately benefit from narrowing the range of exercises - the body has limited adaptive energy. If you’re Olympic lifting do you really need to do squat jumps? Ditto deadlifts? Ditto speed sets…
I believe if you can increase your power clean to 1.5x BW you will find all the dynamic parameters are significantly improved… and without specific training.
If you want to increase your power clean, power snatch, or push jerk – the only way you are going to do this is by using weights “above or equal” to 80% of your 1 rep max. There are several reasons for this viewoint:
- Go to ironman and buy all the training hall tapes related to weightlifting. This shows all the greats working out and preparing to lift in the world championships. The Bulgarians, who are probably the best, lift extremely heavy weights, low reps, and they lift everyday. And almost every lifter in these championships does heavy pulls, cleans, squats every single day. I believe they can recuperate from these workouts based upon their supplementation program, however someone like me could not survive on this program.
-
If you move 100 lbs quickly, it is still only 100lbs. When I put 300 lbs in your hands you are mentally going to say, “Damn this is heavy” and you are not going to be able to lift it. Unless you train with heavy weights, you will not lift heavy weights. Your body is not accustomed to bearing the load of heavy weights.
-
There is a fine line between lifting heaving (80%+) and recuperation. I don’t have the answer to this question, since most of the great powerlifters and weightlifters who train at these levels have greater recuperative powers than I since they are on steroids, human growth hormones, et cetera. If you are not taking any of these it is tough to recuperate.
Just my opinion…
xlr8 stated
"First, even though you are moving the bar faster, you are not generating limb speeds anywhere near the speeds you will see on the track or field. Why not save the speed for the track and the strength for the weight room? "
Thats not really the point… The point for Cool as far as i see it is to facilitate his general power and strength. Its not about only doing speed work here or strength work there. Its about causing neural, structural and metabolic adaptations that will be useful. This is obviously what he thinks is working.
"Second, when you move the bar that fast, you don’t have time to develop maximal force and you may be therefore not recruiting high threshold motor units. The most powerful athletes in the world are sprinters and weightlifters. Sprinters are obviously at the speed end of the continuum, and weightlifters are at the strength end. However, you don’t see world-class weightlifters training with weights below 75% of their RM (or at sets of more than 6 reps for that matter!) Why would you think that this kind of protocol is optimal for developing power? "
A 60% squat is VERY VERY different to a 60% oly lift… there is no comparison really. I dont think that Cool regurlaly does cleans or snatches with a low percent of his clean and snatch weight (as he does with squats etc). They are power movements already, making them significanlty lighter still has no real benefit. You stated “when you move the bar that fast, you don’t have time to develop maximal force and you may be therefore not recruiting high threshold motor units”, I am pretty sure that this assertion is incorrect and that there is scientific evidence to prove that maximal force production can be done with loads at 50-70% of 1RM. I will look for them if you want.
Originally posted by Kruger
I am pretty sure that this assertion is incorrect and that there is scientific evidence to prove that maximal force production can be done with loads at 50-70% of 1RM. I will look for them if you want.
Please do. I believe you will find that maximal power can be generated at 50-70% loads, but maximal force takes (by definition) maximal loads.
xlr8
Okay im having trouble finding journal articles but this is from an article by dave tate…
"The dynamic effort method is used to train the box squat and bench press. This method is defined as lifting a non-maximal load with the greatest speed possible. This method should be coupled with compensatory acceleration. This means you must apply as much force as possible to the barbell, i.e. pushing as hard and as fast as you can in the concentric phase of the lift. If you squat 700 pounds and are training with 400 pounds, then you should be applying 700 pounds of force to the barbell.
The weight used should be non-maximal in the 50% to 75% range. In the text Supertraining, Siff and Verkershonsky state the best range for developing explosive strength in the barbell squat is two-thirds of your best one rep max. Angel Spassov defines this as 50 to 70%. This method isn’t used for the development of maximal strength but for the improved rate of force development and explosive force."
Why do you say that maximal force takes (by definition) maximal loads?
Force is equal to mass times acceleration. So a lighter mass with a high acceleration could very possibly have a greater force then a heavy mass with less acceleration.
Refer to the Force - Velocity relationship in any basic biomechanics text.
xlr8 is on the money - max force requires max loads since tHere is an inverse relationship between max force and max velocity.
Two questions
1. Would training the olympic lifts using westside’s dynamic effort method be useless given the explosive nature of the lifts themselves?
2.Would training the olympic lifts at 90%and above one day in the weekly schedule and keeping the percentages around 80-85 during the other days be a better practice?
I have found that, for intermediate lifters, training above 90% more than once per week can lead to overreaching. As a lifter matures his tolerance for such trainng will increase.
Some programs have impact weeks (controlled overreaching?) in the hope of ellicting super compensation as the body rebounds during the subsequent unloading week.
Originally posted by load47
Two questions
1. Would training the olympic lifts using westside’s dynamic effort method be useless given the explosive nature of the lifts themselves?
Yes. With the olympic lifts, you are already moving the weights maximally fast, using a lighter weight and trying to move them maximally fast is simply training light.
2.Would training the olympic lifts at 90%and above one day in the weekly schedule and keeping the percentages around 80-85 during the other days be a better practice?
I find that I can tolerate training at above 90% two or three times a week as part of my 3-1-3 max strength cycles. After that, I usually drop into the 80 - 90% range for maintenance. If I try to sustain >90% levels for much longer than a 7 week cycle, then I find I stop making progress and am prone to injuries, etc. Of course, if I am not sprinting, then it is easier to lengthen this cycle.
xlr8
xlr8,
Wow seven weeks of three days a week of 90% or above training!
Several questions if you do not mind.
1. How many exercises do you take over 90 in any one session?
2. What exercises do you include over 90% in your cycle?
3.Do you think high school athletes can handle these intensities?
4. what is your overall opinion of Westsides dynamic effort training plan?
Originally posted by load47
xlr8,
Wow seven weeks of three days a week of 90% or above training!
Several questions if you do not mind.
1. How many exercises do you take over 90 in any one session?
It’s not actually that impressive. The cycle is a 3-1-3, so the first three weeks are ‘only’ at 80, 85 and 90%. Then I reduce the volume for the 4th week but keep the intensity at 90%. Then the final three weeks are at 90%+. But remember, these percentages are basd on my 1RM at the start of the cycle. Last time I did this, by the end I was lifting over 100% of my ‘max’. Of course, that meant that my actual max went up.
- What exercises do you include over 90% in your cycle?
Always squats and bench or some variation of these - deadlifts, box squats, db bench, incline bench, etc. Depending on how much sprinting I’m doing, I will also do some snatches and cleans. I will also do SLDLs, good mornings, mil press, rows, etc but these are treated as ancillary and I’m not as formal with progression there.
3.Do you think high school athletes can handle these intensities?
My instinct would say no, but on the other hand, high schoolers probably aren’t handling as much weight, so perhaps. i.e. 90% of a 225 bench is quite different than 90% of a 315 bench. I almost never train to failure and try to always leave 1 or 2 reps in my pocket for each set.
- what is your overall opinion of Westsides dynamic effort training plan?
I think that the results speak for themselves! If you want to get massively strong, the Westside guys have a great program. However, I’m not sure that it is as applicable to the training of a sprinter since the dynamic effort days (move the weights with veloocity) are probably covered in the actual spriniting and sprinting requires more than just great limit strength.
xlr8