No, I´m not dismissing it, just never heard about that low reps of pushups, and for young people not ready to use weights it could be a good way of doing strenght but still don´t cross the line for strengthendurance, or did he advocate this way in general for all athletes?
It´s interesting, even it seems very low intensity if not usin higher sets as you mentioned.
By the way kitkat, who is Saneyev?
Victor Saneyev (actually, Saneev): USSR (Georgia) triple jumper: Olympic gold 1968 Mexico, 1972 Munich, 1976 Montreal (& silver, age 34, 1980 Moscow), three WRs, ranked world No.1 by US TrackandFieldNews nine years straight (despite surgery during two of those years), T&FN’s Male Athlete of the Decade for the Seventies; USSR head coach for jumps - 1981-84.
well…great athlete…didi you pick any other infos from him, especially about triple jump training? did they perform all the depth jump that verchoshanskji states?
Was that the guy who wrote “world’s in collision” ???
(kidding:)
But can you post a sample of what he said they did for plyos and I will forward the info to Vic.
I know one thing, he told me he worked his whole career on getting stronger. Then when his time was up, he realised he had done it all wrong. He should have worked to get faster. Three gold medals : not bad for a guy who trained wrong… still he looked upon his coach as another "father’’…which supports Charlie’s aside to me once: “No coach ever deliberately f**ks up the program for his athlete.”
Which is to say, ‘to err is human. To forgive is divine.’
kk
Good post. BTW “Worlds in Collision” was Velikovski. (Took time off from coaching Borzov to write it, I think!)
Looking for VS’ answer to kitkat, however some years ago, a french triple jumper reported that during a training camp in USSR he saw TJers doing huge sets of 1 metres depth jump. He asked Saneyev how he manage to not break with this hard training, Saneyev replied that if he had done all that, he would have never had such a long career.
Now, there’s theory and practice, and depth jump use is very individual…
Really interesting stuff about Victor Saneyev kitkat. Interseting and confusing to hear someone with that fantastic results and medals, thinks he should have trained some other way!
Is he talking about weights or is he talking about his overall program, track, plyos etc…?
In what way did he train the “wrong way”?
And has he told you what he meant by “should had worked on getting faster”?
As for a previous topic in this thread, weights, what are your feelings about peaking weights? Is it nessesary? The most seem to follow a changing program thrue phases as the CFTS. Then there are others that dosen´t change their gymwork through the season, as for one MJ according to previous threads.
Could this be decided after the athletes “dayform”, if using the 1-6x1-6 (85-95%) and the peaking and phasing are done with trackwork. Or should weightphases and trackphases go “hand-in-hand”?
Once again really interesting about mr Saneyev…impressive results during such a long period to.
here I come kitkat, sorry for the delay.
The book is “Tutto sul metodo d’urto.Mezzi e metodi per lo sviluppo della forza esplosiva”(evrything on shock method.means and methods for developing explosive strength)
on pag 9, there is a “words of appraisal”, with V.S. stating “depth jumps are the dem, daily diet ofa trple jumper:they are what is more neede for them, be"fore any other thing”
The author is a former triple jumpers coach, among other things, and throughout the book he talks about it.on pag 63 he explains a peculiar exercise for triple jumpers, 2 -3 steps running on a hard 1meter pit,jumping down on one leg and then performing the other step and jump.He notes that he developed this method observing triplejumpers.the programs in the book are for a long jumper and general jump training, not specific for the triple…hope this helps
eroszag,
the exercise you mention was used by women’s LJ WR holder Chistyakova, who later switched to Triple Jump after a knee injury. The problem is to know if it was a “daily diet”…which i doubt all lot. Note that such routine is irrelevant for 400m! lol
that is for sure…the example programs for long jumpers didn?t include them,.they consisted mainly of the 2 standards depth jumps 75cm a 110 cm, alternated with barbell squats and jump kettlebell squats( in different days or in the same)
Saneyev says he was not a fan of depth jumping. He said the drop impact was damaging.
I think there was some difficulty in my interpretation (and his) of the information and request.
But essentially he said he did a little bit of what might be called depth-jumping “five to 10 jumps per session maybe once of twice a week”.
When he did his jumps, he did them for fast contact time - ALWAYS moving rapidly forward out of the contact, so you would get that active reverse impulse.
As an aside , for some reason, he said he once asked a former world No1 triple jumper how many run-ups he thought it would be possible to practise in one season. The answer came back as maybe 400.
Saneyev replied in turn that in his long preparation during 1968 for the first of his three Olympic golds in Mexico he did 1000 runups.
He said he ran the 100m in 10.8sec as an 18 or 19-year-old and this improved to a career personal best of 10.4sec.
So this correspondence caught me a little by surprise since it would seem to contradict our earlier discussion about him working for strength when he should have worked more for speed. But that’s definitely what he told me a few years ago.
Still it’s interesting to listen to someone of such experience. You cannot find it all in books.
kk 
yes, experience above everything…also, the greatest of all time, jonathan edwards, increased his speed while increasing the jumping ability…(10"48 on the 100 i think…)
kitkat, comparing Saneyev sprint stats with other USSR Tjers oft he same area, Saneyev wasn’t the fastest (add to 10.4 at 100m a 6.5 at 60m and 15.9 at 150m), however, his lift/throw/jump tests where best or close to best. That’s maybe what he meant when he said he should have focus more on speed (speed a little down and strentgh/power and little up compared to national means).
PJ: WHERE on Earth do you get all these stats?!?
All I know now is that Saneyev needs double hip replacement surgery. He is in constant pain. A few months ago he told me he blacked out from pain in his lower back and when he woke up he had gashed his forehead falling in the kitchen. But he doesn’t complain. He says he knew as a young man what he was signing up for.
As an aside, I was telling him about some Jesse Owens memorabilia coming up for sale soon (just five photos with one autograph - not on the pix). He said in Munich when he was already Olympic champion (from Mexico) he saw Owens walking by a few metres away in the village. “My legs went suddenly weak” Saneyev said. “He was (is) a legend.”
That’s respect - from another Legend.
kk
Hey kk, that’s my job 
let us share your job…
A few months ago he told me he blacked out from pain in his lower back and when he woke up he had gashed his forehead falling in the kitchen.
I think he needs a pacemaker!
He did 1000 situps and 1000 pushups the other day. A pacemaker he DOESN’T need. Plenty of ticker in the old boy. kk
First of all, I’d like to thank everyone for all the great stuff in this thread. I’ve just spent over an hour trying to absorb all 15 pages.
Second of all, I figured that since a lot of the people commenting in this are pretty knowledgable in training for the 400m, maybe you could help me out.
A friend of mine (hes 16 years old) recently decided that he was gonna switch from being a 100m focus to a 200/400 focus. His PBs (all set in the past month) are 10.9 100m, 22.1 200m, and 50.9 400m (all handtimed). Now it seems to both of us that if he can run a 22 200, then he should definetly be running a sub 50 400. We think that the problem is that hes going out too fast and dying on the last straightaway.
So what should a runner capable of a 22 flat 200 use as his splits for the 400m? (he’s also run in the low 36s for a 300m during practice, if thats of any use in figuring out target splits)
Right now hes been going out the first 200 in the low 23 range, and obviously his second 200 has been in the 27 range. The differential is over 4 seconds, is that too be expected for a relatively new 400 guy, or is it much too much? Would he better be better off going out a little slower and conserve a bit more energy for the second 200m or should he continue to go out quickly and die? Sorry for all the questions, but if anyone could answer them I hope you guys could.
In order to target sub 50sec, a 35.x time at 300m trial is required.
If we take the example of women, from my own analysis, a 50.0 performance at 400m requires 24.0 split at 200m, with a 300m split of 36.3, from a 200m personal best of 22.8.
Concerning men, the splits are a little bit different, and according to Czech model split times, we have for men (all times are electric rounded):
11.9 - 22.9 - 34.8 - 48.0 (11.9 + 11.0 + 11.9 + 13.2)
12.1 - 23.3 - 35.4 - 49.0 (12.1 + 11.2 + 12.1 + 13.6)
12.3 - 23.6 - 36.0 - 50.0 (12.3 + 11.3 + 12.4 + 14.0)
12.5 - 24.0 - 36.6 - 51.0 (12.5 + 11.5 + 12.6 + 14.4)
Now, if we look at the control table for men’s 400m (Letzelter, FRG, 1976), we have sub and overdistance personal bests (hand times) :
400m - 48.0 / 49.0
100m - 10.8 / 11.0
200m - 21.9 / 22.3
300m - 34.5 / 35.1
500m - 64.4 / 65.8
Your friend has obviously a sprinter type who needs to go slowly for first 200m, if he goes out in 23.0 (hand time), he targets a sub49 time, which is not possible right now. A time not faster that 23.5 (ht) can be advised, considering that he is a 22.1ht sprinter and doesn’t have specific 400m endurance in place. At age 16 it’s also a little too soon to work by the way.
The wrong advise could be “if you’re a sprinter, you should pass at mid point faster than the others”. This doesn’t take in account the resistance/specific training factor. If Marion Jones, Gwen Torrence and Grace Jackson, all sub22 female runners training for 100/200, had gone faster than 23.5 at mid-point, i’m pretty sure they would have never run sub 50sec… They need a pretty high speed reserve in order to finish in a decent way.
Hope this helps, and tell your friend that at 16yo, don’t break your neck at 400m!