John,
You are awesome for digging that up. I went straight into 6x200 last year my first time through KitKat’s GPP. I didn’t find out about the above post until it was too late! Great progression by TopCat, I’m going to try it this year.
Ted,
I think it depends on the athlete’s fitness level. Last spring, I had a few guys coming off XC season handle 6x200, it just wasn’t fast yet. They were able to recover quickly between runs. However, a sprinter with limited fitness, may need to have that run split up, with one potential progression above.
I’ve had guys go at it to find out what they could do. When they hit their limit I’d stop and know where to progress from there. Some times I’ve had guys do 4 at pace and die a horrible death at #5. I would then aim to work towards doing 5 in a row for this situation.
ESTI,
Yes there is no way our 46-47 guys could go right into [EMAIL="5-6x200@24/25"]5-6x200@24/25[/EMAIL] r=2. Maybe we will look at topCats progression.
We have after several months of GPP done WO’s like 3x200@25-24-24 R=2and 1. With 10 min rest btwn sets 1rst set in trainers 2nd set in spikes on an indoor track. This kind of gets us ready ror the 5-6x200@24/25. Which is something we have really only tried a few times.
Let me fix the last post The WO we do in the winter 2x3x200@25-24-24.Should actually be 25-25-24. Later in the spring we would go 25-24-24. The one sec faster on the 2nd rep makes a big difference.
I always aim to jog a recovery over the same distance as the rep: run 200m, jog, 200m, run 200m etc. I aim to cover the jog component in 2mins or under. Some athletes, particularly those moving up from a 100m competitive background, needed to walk every part of every recovery. But eventually, if only in the second year, they moved to jogging some or all of the recoveries
We tried it on grass first following a good GPP with decent tempo sessions. 5x200m on grass starting with 5 mins recovery then whittled it down a bit, then switched to the track with 4x200m at come home pace with 2 1/2 mins recovery. After a few sessions my male under 20 was doing 5 reps with 2mins recovery, much of it walked to protect his shins.
One of my athletes is doing this at the moment, and has just finished week 4 - that 2 x 2 x 200m. It was the first week we haven’t been affected by wind, he started off a second quicker than planned and his last rep was 2 seconds slower than planned. Although not unhappy with that.
The one thing I am trying is the first week of the progression (the progression si 12 weeks remember, 2 weeks on each one) I do a walk recovery, and the second week is the jog recovery. Seems to be able to handle the load slightly better at the moment.
One of my athletes did his first 400m for the season. Last season he run 55.6. He has missed about 8 weeks of full training aver the last 5 months due to being an idiot…
On Thursday he did 2 x 3 x 200m with jog recovery and 5 minutes between sets. 1st set all done in the 27’s the second set all 30’s
After running a 100m in 12.19 (PB is 12.18), he run a 400m in 54.44 and came home well. The winter of hills has worked.
He also finished University exams on Wednesday (he is sitting on a 90% average)
We have been doing max speed SPP (as per CF video) and some hills and now 6 x 200’s session. Competition is his special endurance work.
The work, modifying KK’s work, has been working.
I used kk programme last year after a few tweaks, using a revolution of the phases, starting in November run through to April, including an indoor phase in feb.
Worked rather well with all my young athletes producing PBs and the older ones (including myself) running better times then the past 4/5 years.
For this year, I have amended the programme further incorporating a few other elements I felt we’re missing, funnily enough this was top end and actual vo2 and threshold work.
Split into 4 6week phases each with a 4week specific element and then 2weeks of standard tolerance training. Culminating in a 4 week phase prior to the season.
I have high hopes with the programme and is working well so far, but first test is indoor feb and then of course the outdoor
Hi there,
I’m interested in what your program looked like from November to April. My athletes started in October and are going to do a double periodized season, with an indoor phase mostly in late January and February (and early March perhaps), rolling into an outdoor peak at the end of June.
What are the workouts that you’ve added? I don’t find that anything is missing in KitKat’s program, it is a very carefully planned GPP. I found that the 60 and 150 times were fairly static until the transition phase, where they came down dramatically. There doesn’t appear to be enough lactic speed in the program, but when you look at the GPP and how you aren’t doing a ton of bullshit slogging with long runs, 600’s, etc. and are pretty much moving fast from day one, I think it mostly makes up for the lack of alactic work results-wise. My guy went from a 49.06 PB years back to 47.51 PB within 13 weeks- that was off a single GPP, transition, and racing, moving right into a taper.
What do the workouts look like that you added in for top end and actual VO2 and threshold work? What did workouts you delete if you added in those workouts?
Looking forward to your comments.
Hi T, I understand you yourself have had good success and I am huge fan of KK work and without the threshold thread many years ago I wouldnt have thought about things and what works for my guys.
I have used KK work as a foundation and adapted to suit my surroundings, being in the UK and not being full time.
KK programme runs through the 6 week phase twice, being 12 weeks. last year due to athletes not really joining until mid October (late season finish) I used 4 weeks of general conditioning, circuits and tempo with plenty of core work. Then used a 4 week turnaround twice leading into a transition phase. From the dates you will see the 8 weeks ended early January, allowing a 4 week transition into early feb when the indoor races then took place.
Thank fully this worked well for us, as stated all my 4 runners PB’d and the older athletes (myself included) ran bests going back upto 5 years.
Worth noting my weekend sessions aimed at Vo2 threshold development.
SPP Part 1 (November 14th – January 8th)
All sessions start with 6 Progressive / technique acceleration runs over 36m
Wk1 - Speed
Mon - Weights, General Strength 55
Tue - Accelerations, 410m / 420m / 440m + Plyometrics (WB rec)
Wed - Off or Weights, General Strength 55
Thurs - Speed, ins and outs 4150 / 560m + Plyometrics (WB rec)
Fri - Off or Weights, General Strength 48
Sat - LS, 22miles
Sun - LS, 22 320 long hills
Wk2 - Speed
Mon - Weights, Max Weights 33
Tue - Speed/SPE, 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 150 (4min rec)
Wed - Off or Weights, Max Weights 33
Thurs - Accelerations, Resistance / Weighted Sleds + Plyometrics
Fri - Off or Weights, Max weights 5-4-3-2-1
Sat - LG, 5*2min on / 2min off Abbey fields
Sun - LG & SG 2*6 180 hills
Wk3 - Intensive
Mon - Speed, 550m / Weights, Max Weights 33
Tue - LS, 6200m (possibly 2 / 3200) goal home pace! (2min rec)
Wed - Off or Weights, Max Weights 33
Thurs - LS, 3 / 3300m (2 / 8min rec)
Fri - Off or Weights, Max weights 5-4-3-2-1
Sat - LS, 43min on / 3min off
Sun - LS, 24 180+40m steep ‘ish’ hills
Wk4 - Intensive
Mon - Speed, 550m / Weights, Max Weights 33
Tue - LS, 6200m (possibly 2 / 3200) goal home pace! (2min rec)
Wed - Off or Weights, Max Weights 3*3
Thurs - LS, 350 / 250 / 150 / 120 (8-10min rec)
Fri - Off or Weights, Max weights 5-4-3-2-1
Sat - LS, 45min on / 3min off XC
SG, Heavy Sled pulls + Plyometrics
Sun - LS, 22 320 long hills
Wk5 - Speed
Mon - Weights, Light general strength 410
Tue - Accelerations, 410m / 420m / 440m + Plyometrics
Wed - Off or Weights, Light general strength 410
Thurs - Speed, 630m fly’s / 560m + Plyometrics (4 min rec)
Fri - Off or Weights, General Strength 48
Sat - LS, 22miles
Sun - LG & SG 26 180 hills
Wk6 - Speed
Mon - Weights, Max Weights 33
Tue - Speed/SPE, 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 150 (4 min rec)
Wed - Off or Weights, Max Weights 33
Thurs - SPE, 8*150m (3 min rec)
Fri - Off or Weights, Max weights 5-4-3-2-1
Sat - LS, 5*2min on / 2min off Abbey fields
Sun - LS, 2*4 180+40m steep ‘ish’ hills
Wk7 - Intensive
Mon - Speed, 550m / Weights, Max Weights 33
Tue - LS, 6*200m - goal home pace! (2min rec)
Wed - Off or Weights, Max Weights 33
Thurs - LS, 3 / 3300m (2 / 8min rec)
Fri - Off or Weights, Max weights 5-4-3-2-1
Sat - LS, 43min on / 3min off
Sun - LS, 24 180+40m steep ‘ish’ hills
Wk8 - Intensive
Mon - Speed, 550m / Weights, Max Weights 33
Tue - LS, 6*200m - goal home pace! (2min rec)
Wed - Off or Weights, Max Weights 33
Thurs - LS, 5250 (8-10min rec)
Fri - Off or Weights, Max weights 5-4-3-2-1
Sat - LS, 4*5min on / 3min off XC
Sun - LS, 2*2 320 long hills
For this year what I noticed was from a physiolgical point, that due to weather and or other personal issues if you missed one of the 2 week phases, when it rolled round again you were defo behind in the development. And although your right the speed does kick back in when you transition. there wasnt enough real development for the athletes to progress, they just went back to where they were before but now a little stronger for the 4 in order to hold that pace (which is great for thr 4, if your athletes already have the speed level that will get them where they want to be for that year!)
We then struggled with a double periodisation (prob due to the olympic year and all major races either being really early or rearly late) either way working that way didnt suit a double periodisation for us.
However that being said! We do intend to race indoor this year, in what can only be classed as an experiment on my part.
My plan is double ended, as before working in changable phases in a similer fashion as to the KK programme… But this time the speed block is being extended to 4 weeks and the 2 week attached block ‘intensive’ will be a little more traditional lactic training (just to keep this work in the system)
although my plan is double ended working both ends of the spectrum, each 4 week speed block has a definative aim in which I want to improve specificaly. The phases being - Holistic, Top end, Acceleration and then Tolerance. The acceleration phases coincides with the indoor phase.
sample of the holistic, we are now in week 5 (intensive)
NOTE: long hill is 170m unless states Abbey Fields as that hill is 340m (hence the difference in reps)
This phase is similar to a transition phase in order to establish and maintain gains from the previous season before going into the real developing part of the winter.
Wk1 - Speed
Tue - Accelerations / Speed, 436m (3 min rec) / 50-60-70m (8 Min rec)
Thurs - Special Endurance, LS 3220m (8min rec) - all 460m at the end
Sat - LS, 31k reps (4min rec)
Sun - LS, 15 Long hills (2 min rec)
Wk2 - Speed
Tue - Accelerations / Speed, 436m (3 min rec) / 50-60-70m (8 Min rec)
Thurs - Special Endurance, LS 2300m (10min rec) - all 460m at the end
Sat - LS, 10450m (partner rec)
Sun - LS, 2*10 Long hills (2 min rec)
Wk3 - Speed
Tue - Accelerations / Speed, 410m (3 min rec) 236m / 50-70m-90m (8 Min rec)
Thurs - Special Endurance,) LS 3250m (10min rec) - all 460m at the end
Sat - LS, 31k reps (4min rec)
Sun - LS, 32 Long hills (2 min rec) (Abbey Fields)
Wk4 - Speed
Tue - Accelerations / Speed, 436m (3 min rec) / 60-80-100m (8 Min rec)
Thurs - Special Endurance, LS 2350/300/250m (10min rec)
Sat - LS, 4*800m (3min rec)
Sun - LS, 15 Long hills (1:45 min rec)
Wk1 - Intense
Tue - 2-8100m B2Bs (45sec- 10min rec)
Thurs - LS 3-3200m (4-10min rec)
SG 2-4150m (4-10min rec)
Sat - LS, 41k reps (4min rec)
Sun - LS, 3*2 Long hills (2 min rec) (Abbey Fields)
Wk2 - Intense
Tue - LS 2-3300m (4-10min rec)
SG 2-3220m (4min rec)
Thurs - LS 500/100/400/200/300m (6min rec)
SG 100/200/300/200/100 (4min rec)
Sat - TEST - 3 split 400m (250-150) (1min rec) / 36-60-150m
Sun - LS, 15 Long hills (1:45 min rec)
Hope that makes sense, i know this post us huge and Im sorry 
Should add that all weekend work is on grass and trail tracks
Hi AJ,
I was hoping for a detailed response, but this is even more awesome than I could have hoped for. I’m still digesting it. I’ll post a rough idea of what we are doing heading toward indoors- or at least what I was planning before I read your post! I hope you don’t mind a few questions.
Thanks again,
T
Hi AJ,
So here is what I have planned tentatively for indoors. The problem I have, and I think you are probably thinking about the same issue;
Indoor races tend to be shorter, therefore if you don’t get to the speed early enough they won’t be happy with their results. Our first indoor race will be a 300m event in mid-January, which is in the third week of the transition phase. They should hopefully be able to run OK
What I’ve been thinking about doing is:
GPP 1 (now complete)
GPP 2- Possibly add small volumes of accel work at least once per week. Possibly insert some pure alactic work (two or three workouts) during the second 2 1/2 week speed-oriented block.
Slightly modified Transition:
Follow the 4 Week KitKat Transition with 3 days high intensity, but following a Charlie style High-Low setup with tempo and general fitness work on low days- the below setup was recommended to me by ESTI last year when I went through the KitKat program myself, and we also used something very similar with my athlete outdoors last season.
Monday:
Ins-Outs 2x (2x 40 m build, 20 m fly, 20 m maintain) 8-10 min rest/rep, 10-15/set
then
3x ( standing 30, block 30, flying 30)
3x ( st 40, block 40, fly 40)
3x (st 60, block 60, fly 60)
Wednesday:
Ins Outs from Day 1
then
300-250-180-150-120, 10-12 min rest bt/all runs, run these relaxed and fast, but dont press it
Friday
2 x (200+200)
Set 1, rep 1: 200 in 2 seconds faster than your 5x200 runs
set 1, rep 2, full out
Rest 20+ min
Set 2, rep 1, tempo 200
set 2, rep 2, full out
Competition Phase:
This would be a Charlie Francis type setup for an 8 week Competition Phase. I’m just presenting a quick picture of what it might look like. Credit for the below setup again goes to ESTI:
Week 1
Day 1
4x30 resist
4x30 block
2x (300+100)
Day 2
2x 30 standing
4x 30 blocks
2x (3x60m)
Day 3
2x30 standing
2x30 blocks
40, 50, 60
250, 200 (20 minute rest)
Week 2
Day 1
3x30 resist, 1 un resist
4x30 block
(300+80)x2
Day 2
3x30 standing
4x40 blocks
4x60 (8 minutes rest)
Day 3
4x30 standing
4x30 blocks
250, 200 (25 minutes rest)
Week 3
Day 1
4x30 2 resisted, 2 unresisted
3x30 block
300 rest 30 min 200
Day 2
4x30 standing
4x40 blocks
4x60 (10 minutes rest)
Day 3
4x30 standing
2x30 blocks
2x40 blocks
2x200 (30 minutes rest)
Week 4
Day 1
4x30 standing 1 resisted, 3 unresisted
40, 50
200+200 (rest 2 minutes)
Day 2
2x30 standing
4x30 blocks
4x60 (12 minutes rest)
Day 3
4x30 standing
3x40 blocks
1x50 blocks
200, 150 (rest 35 minutes)
Week 5
Day 1
4x30 blocks
300
Day 2
2x30 standing
4x30 blocks
3x60 (15 minutes rest)
Day 3
3x30 standing
2x30 blocks
2x40 blocks
2x150 (rest 35 minutes)
Week 6
Day 1
4x30 blocks
300
Day 2
2x30 standing
4x30 blocks
3x60 (15 minutes rest)
Day 3
4x30 standing
4x30 blocks
150, 120 (rest 35 minutes)
Week 7
Taper for Main Competition
Now quickly looking back over the above, there are a couple of things that I’d say stand out. Last season we often used a single 150 on the alactic day during KitKat’s Transition at the end of the workout (so on the Monday). My athlete has a limited work capacity, but the work he can do is very high quality. I felt that cutting the volume of short runs and substituting a 150 was easier to tolerate CNS-wise, and it also brought some nice improvements. That’s an issue i’ll have to tackle in the CF style phase above, as the indoor 150 is not an option, it’s just too tight.
I’m also interested in the phosphate depletion work that KitKat has mentioned he has in his program now. I believe he uses 4-5x80m at a good clip with walkback rest, followed by a full effort 200m. It’s clearly in Charlie’s 400m Short to Long program as well (80+80 then 200). I like the idea of doing this, as I’m not keen at all on running the 5x200 workout indoors. It cuts the number of turns down from 10 (indoors) in the 5x200 workout, to just two turns in the 4x80+200 workout as the 80’s can be done on the straight.
When during your competition phase will you be racing and over what distances? I can only see three workouts in this phase that will prepare you for the last 100m of a 400m race, and the last one is about a month before the main competition. Do you think that will be enough for a good 400m performance in the main competition (assuming that this is the goal)?
Hi Robin1,
The entire GPP 1 and GPP 2 are geared toward the final part of the 400m, and indoors will likely be more focused on the 300m and 200m distances. There will be a 4x400 relay if my athlete runs in the university championships at the very end of the season, but the reality is that we will put more emphasis back on the final 100 starting in the outdoor GPP in March. Basically the work on the final 100 will be in maintenance, but I appreciate you pointing out that more maintenance may be required. I will do is repost the plan with proposed competition dates.
In addition to the last 100m, I didn’t show any EFE / FEF work in the competition phase, nor is there any flying work shown, e.g. easy 30-40m accel into a flying 20m segment. I’m sure this can basically be done by adjusting the focus of some of the 60m runs so I’m not too worried, but we do need to address maximum velocity in this block as the KitKat GPP blocks do not contain any true maximum velocity development work.
Races indoors will be mainly 300, 200 and a few 60’s later when acceleration and max velocity is in place. The hope is that advancement in speed can then be carried into the outdoor GPP phase without deloading excessively and losing too much in the way of overall fitness. There will almost surely be an indoor 400 somewhere the middle of the competition phase.
Basically, the 300 will be the “major competition” if anything, so that will come right at the end of the period.
T that looks pretty solid, agreed for your programme its the work in the GPP’s that will develop the come home strength along with the Transition phase.
As you will be racing in the competitive phase, that will be your strength work, and I agree working on speed reserve is the direction to take (staying healthy of course)
I too like the depletion stuff and will be using similar once we approach the outdoor season, after my tolerance phase in march (which is after the indoor phase.
For me the main aim is to develop the speed required to reach the set targets for outdoors and use the indoor races as meer elements of training.
As I have a lot of ‘special’ work included at the weekends - Hills, Vo2 etc I expect this to somewhat ‘blunt’ the speed until taper is required or even the outdoor completly.
I will post my full 4 phases later today, might help for discussion. im happy to have other review and give opinions 
I am a bit confused.Is the program you posted SPP Nov14-Jan8 done after an 8wk GPP phase based off of K.K.s GPP setup?
You also later in the thread posted a 6wk block: 4wk speed 2 wk intense. Is this done after the Nov into Jan block?
Many of your Wo’s don’t mention either times or pct’s. So it is tough to comment on unknowns.
Also you use the initials LS and sometimes LG before some of your WO’s. Could you please explain?
No what i have classed as my SPP is an adaptation of KK GPP, My GPP is a standard traditional all round fitness approach ready for my SPP1
The 8 week phase from me above was how I rotated around last yeah, 8 week block followed by 4 weeks transition - into racing indoor. then repeat for outdoor with few minor tweeks.
From my personal findings with myself and my athletes, we struggled with a double periodisation and the lack of speed development. For me, it seems as though the KK approach is suited for a mature established runner who has sufficent speed to reach targets (as of course KK has never claimed to suit all)
The 6 week period above is taken from this years approach, which is my development further from last year. which this year does not repeat phases as such and doesnt have a specific double periodisation though does allow indoor racing.
I have no specific target times, its a simple programme, for the phase above, tuesdays = 100% as speed orientated, thursdays = 95% (except the intensive phase which is all 90% specific lactic tolerence, defo intensive tempo).
As for the LS, LG thats just personal notes as to whom will do the session, as I split my groups up and have other groups join the 4 squad occasionally (though some are not showing)
Hope that makes sense!?
Will post other parts up later that take me through to april
The Comp phase was geared towards a 200m focus off a work capacity prep (KK’s program). If one were to focus mainly on 400, the comp phase would likely change depending on the athlete’s needs that would be evident in races (i.e. week through 250; poor race model execution in races etc).
Sorry I did say i would post my next phase, had some drama over the weekend my apologies
This is my leed on ohase from the above, targeted development is of course speed end. Youw ill see however that the weekend strength threshold work does not cease throughout.
SPP (November 26th – January 6th) Speed End
All sessions start with 4 Progressive / technique acceleration runs over 36m
Conditioning circuit held Mondays 6-8 at the university in addition to weight/strength training
This phase will include more vertical orientated Plyometrics, along with myo-tendon development.
Wk1 - Speed
Tue - Accelerations / Speed, 336m (3 min rec) / 520m fly’s 40m build up (5 Min rec)
Thurs - 3150m ins/outs. 436m
Sat - LS, 31k reps (4min rec)
Sun - LS, 32 Long hills (2 min rec) (Abbey Fields)
Wk2 - Speed
Tue - Accelerations / Speed, 410 accels (3 min rec) / 560m (5 Min rec)
Thurs - 60/80/120/150 (10m = 1min rec)
Sat - LS, 10*450m (partner rec)
Sun - LS, 14 Long hills (1:40 min rec)
Wk3 - Speed
Tue - Accelerations / Speed, 410m (3 min rec) 520m Fly’s 40m build up (8 Min rec)
Thurs - 3120m (8min rec) 360m
Sat - LS, 31k reps (4min rec)
Sun - LS, 32 Long hills (2 min rec) (Abbey Fields)
Wk4 - Speed
Tue - Accelerations / Speed, 436m (3 min rec) / 60-80-100m (8 Min rec)
Thurs - 436m (3min rec) / 530m Fly’s 50m build ups (6min rec)
Sat - LS, 4800m (3min rec)
Sun - LS, 14 Long hills (1:40 min rec)
Wk1 - Intense
Tue - 2-8100m B2Bs (45sec- 10min rec)
Thurs - LS 3-3200m (4-10min rec)
Sat - LS, 41k reps (4min rec)
Sun - LS, 32 Long hills (2 min rec) (Abbey Fields)
Wk2 - Intense
Tue - LS 4-2*300m (2-10min rec)
Thurs - LS 5-2*150 (1-6min rec)(split 300s)
Sat - TEST - 3 split 400m (250-150) (1min rec) / 36-60-150m
Sun - LS, 12 Long hills (1:30 min rec)
Thanks guys