Has anyone here tried kit kats 400m program?
Any success with it?
And did u have to adjust the training volume down?
I guess the structure of the program is for everyone, but the session should be adjusted to your level? I am aiming for a sub 51 400m. I am coming from 800m background and have good endurance. Maybe I dont need to adjust down the volume?
Trials 300m (stand start), and 150m. + Weights (Lowest Reps Possible).
Rest
Trials 80m and 200m + Weights (As Normal, all exercises, for volume at 80-85% of 1rmax)
Rest
Rest
REPEAT 6-WK CYCLE STARTING FROM WK 1.
Now that’s the basical outline. You have to monitor the athlete closely. I don’t want to be prescriptive with times because every athlete will have to vary, depending on training years and ability and commitment. No-one is going to go from being a 50sec runner to 44sec in one year (unless they have previously been close to 44sec).
I make zero demands during the first cycle. But I use that to calculate (also based on PBs and standard 400m models) what MIGHT be appropriate target times for the reps for each individual.
The second time through the cycle, I ask more of the athlete, of course with consideration to all the things posted earlier on this thread.
As I said, “absolute” speed is not really being develop. There is too much volume even in the speed-power cycle to classify the work as 100m develop-type stuff. But as the athletes get fitter, they can deliver some fairly impressive speed through those sessions - especially over the years. The best male 400m runner I had the honour to work with started to run some ridiculously quick times during some GPP sets. Then again his body adapted over the seven years (double periodised) we worked together.
kk
It has been mentioned on the forum, of people doing the programme with success, people needing to modfy the volume and etc…
From memory most people who commenced the programme - became sore and injured. To fix this they reduced the volume or changed methods. The ones who reduced volume noticed greater improvement the next season.
Can’t put my finger on who said this, but I can remember seeing it (I hope)
i think with this program you try not to be prescriptive but eventually i provided the actual program used by a couple of my athletes. But they were international 400m sprinters. Fr others moving up to the 400m, the volume is cut and recovery times between reps (especially) is increased. Train symptomatically. If it hurts too much, end the rep, set or session as I have written on the dreaded lactate thread. You need to have a sense of self-preservation about these matters. You also need to bear in mind that you need consistency through the weeks ahead, so don’t annihilate yourself trying to complete a session today just because of the challenge that it has been written down and was done by some champion of yesteryear. Be sensible, be kind to yourself, and just break the work down into palitable proportions kk
I’ve used the idea of doing 4-6x200m at the come home pace of the 400m before moving to more Special Endurance 2 workouts and it worked very well for me with athletes in the 45-47s range.
I started using the this last season with my older athletes. Didn’t get a full season of it, lasted about 4 weeks, because of a medial knee injury from playing futsal. The work we did do the athlete improved 3 seconds (57 to 54) and their 200m improved a around a second.
I agree. 200m jog. Although you could start off with walks and/or split them into 2 sets etc… 4-6x200 with 200m jog recovery was the end result before reducing reps.
Quick question - does anyone do an anaerobic lactic session 24-48 hrs after a speed alactic session? I missed the indoor season and am hoping to compete this outdoor season. I have been conditioning all winter with a schedule like this - Su- speed drills/plyos/weights/Mon - tempo work/Tue rest/Wed - speed drills/plyos/weights, Thursday - tempo, Fri/Sa off. I’d like to be better prepared for the 200m and possibly a 400 so was thinking this split.
Saturday - speed drills (speed under 8 seconds)/Plyos/Weights, Sunday - off/light tempo, Monday - anaerobic lactic power - (40-60sec stuff), Tuesday - tempo, Wednesday - speed drills/pylos/weights/ - Thursday tempo, Friday off. This will change again as I get outdoors more and can get longer track workouts in. I am 50 and last competed in March 2010 (tore hamstring last race of the WMA M45 60m in Kamloops)
Thanks
Hi Trevor. 24 vs 48 hrs recovery is pretty big difference. At the moment my schedule preparing for 400m outdoors (main competition 8th of July) looks like this. Sun - speed like flys/weights / Mon - special end/ Tue - easy day / Wen - Strength End (high knees) / Thur - plyos/weights (no sprinting) / Fri - Special End / Sat - rest.
Looking at this schedule there is 24 hours recovery between speed, plyos, weights days and special end days. I know it might look risky and there might be recovery issues with such schedule. However, I use this schedule b/c it’s still early preparation and my special endurance workouts are not very fast and I run them in running shoes. The fastest was 5x200 2min recovery in 26sec indoors, other workouts at around 28-29sec 200m speed, so very near tempo pace but metabolically demanding. Still cold outside so at the moment still stuck indoors. For this reason I do Wen high knees like 2 x 4 x for 45sek, it’s hard but easier on my legs and easier on CNS. Later I need to change that schedule b/c special end workouts will become faster so would be hard to do one day speed and next fast special end. I ran my two best seasons when doing similar schedule, just my most special endurance workouts were done on forest track in running shoes (just speed drills on hard track in spikes), so overall stress was lower.
However, I’m still 29 and you are 50. You need more recovery for your joints, muscles,tendons so 24 hours rest would be too risky and not worth doing in my opinion. If you manage to control overall volume of your weekly schedule so doing speed one day and special end after 48 hours is ok.
I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I would like to get some input form the kitkat followers on CF.com concerning the following training session which is very closely linked to the sessions being described in this thread. Question…what is your realisitic opinion on anyone being able to perform the following session, or anything close to it:
6 x 250 @ 90% off of 90secs rest
Considering the difficulty many express with kitkat type sessions of 6 x 200 at come home (which with anyone I have worked with is something less than a 90% pace), this just doesn’t seem like a session many, if any, athletes can work through. The extra 50m, plus the increase in pace, even if it is just the difference between 87-88% and 90%, seems excessive. Anyone with experience with these type of sessions have an opinion? And I would love to here kitkat’s view on this.
Having gone through two KitKat GPP blocks this indoor season (6 weeks x 2) plus the 4 week transition phase, then working through an 8 week CF based mixed short to long program (which included some 400 maintenance work [2x 200+200 and the like once per week]), I can’t imagine being able to complete 6x250 with 90 seconds rest at anywhere close to 90% pace.
I know lots of American coaches love to go from intensive to extensive tempo as the season progresses, but I’ve never seen the rest below 2 minutes or the intensity above 80% to 85% at the absolute max for the above type of workout.
KitKat has a 3x3x300 workout with one minute between each 300, but it’s broken into three sets with 3 minutes or more between each set (at least the way I ran it, I took 4 minutes between sets). I ran it at around 80% though. Keep in mind I’m a masters guy and am by no stretch of the imagination “elite,” but did go through his full GPP / transition and it really, really worked for me. My 300 time dropped by around three seconds overall (42.5 hand timed to around 39.5 hand timed), and I ran almost a half second PB indoors in the 200.
What would the purpose of the proposed 6x250 with 90 seconds rest at 90% workout be?
Thanks Linas. Right now the anaerobic lactic power stuff is just 90-95% efforts with long 5-6min rest and not in spikes yet. Has been a mixture of modalities just to work that energy system. When it gets specific to running and in spikes I’ll make sure it allows for 48+ hours.
There was some discussion about using some very intense sessions to build up work capacity, etc., and it evolved into the discussion of the 6 x 250 @ 90% off of 90 secs. This session was met with some raised eyebrows, including mine, but I wanted to hear the opinions of others, especially on this board, who are more familiar with kitkat’s workouts and might have a more educated opinion of such a workout.
In conversations with the long time forum member Clemson, he likes 6x250 for developing capacity to handle 200m in rounds. It’s close to 90% but I think the rest is a bit longer. I feel the 6x200 serves both 200 and 400 runners.
Doing 5-6x200 building to 200m jog recovery is quite difficult and requires a very high level of fitness. Currently I have one runner who did 6x200 in 26 off 2 min rest. Next week will start the jog recovery. It’s possible we will do every other-jog recovery building to every rep over the next 10 weeks.
I have used this WO alot. But I was always a bit hesitant to start right off as KK does. We kind of used a C Hart system 12x200 @32 r=2 gradually decreasing until I thought our guys were ready to handle 24or 25 sec runs. (our guys are 46-47runners) I’d really like to try going at it much earlier in the training year . Has anyone else started straight away with goal times?
kk