i think with this program you try not to be prescriptive but eventually i provided the actual program used by a couple of my athletes. But they were international 400m sprinters. Fr others moving up to the 400m, the volume is cut and recovery times between reps (especially) is increased. Train symptomatically. If it hurts too much, end the rep, set or session as I have written on the dreaded lactate thread. You need to have a sense of self-preservation about these matters. You also need to bear in mind that you need consistency through the weeks ahead, so don’t annihilate yourself trying to complete a session today just because of the challenge that it has been written down and was done by some champion of yesteryear. Be sensible, be kind to yourself, and just break the work down into palitable proportions 
kk
I’ve used the idea of doing 4-6x200m at the come home pace of the 400m before moving to more Special Endurance 2 workouts and it worked very well for me with athletes in the 45-47s range.
I started using the this last season with my older athletes. Didn’t get a full season of it, lasted about 4 weeks, because of a medial knee injury from playing futsal. The work we did do the athlete improved 3 seconds (57 to 54) and their 200m improved a around a second.
What is the rest interval on 4-6 X 200?
If I remember correctly somewhere around 2 min. The rest usually represents 200m of walking or jogging between runs…
I agree. 200m jog. Although you could start off with walks and/or split them into 2 sets etc… 4-6x200 with 200m jog recovery was the end result before reducing reps.
Quick question - does anyone do an anaerobic lactic session 24-48 hrs after a speed alactic session? I missed the indoor season and am hoping to compete this outdoor season. I have been conditioning all winter with a schedule like this - Su- speed drills/plyos/weights/Mon - tempo work/Tue rest/Wed - speed drills/plyos/weights, Thursday - tempo, Fri/Sa off. I’d like to be better prepared for the 200m and possibly a 400 so was thinking this split.
Saturday - speed drills (speed under 8 seconds)/Plyos/Weights, Sunday - off/light tempo, Monday - anaerobic lactic power - (40-60sec stuff), Tuesday - tempo, Wednesday - speed drills/pylos/weights/ - Thursday tempo, Friday off. This will change again as I get outdoors more and can get longer track workouts in. I am 50 and last competed in March 2010 (tore hamstring last race of the WMA M45 60m in Kamloops)
Thanks
Hi Trevor. 24 vs 48 hrs recovery is pretty big difference. At the moment my schedule preparing for 400m outdoors (main competition 8th of July) looks like this. Sun - speed like flys/weights / Mon - special end/ Tue - easy day / Wen - Strength End (high knees) / Thur - plyos/weights (no sprinting) / Fri - Special End / Sat - rest.
Looking at this schedule there is 24 hours recovery between speed, plyos, weights days and special end days. I know it might look risky and there might be recovery issues with such schedule. However, I use this schedule b/c it’s still early preparation and my special endurance workouts are not very fast and I run them in running shoes. The fastest was 5x200 2min recovery in 26sec indoors, other workouts at around 28-29sec 200m speed, so very near tempo pace but metabolically demanding. Still cold outside so at the moment still stuck indoors. For this reason I do Wen high knees like 2 x 4 x for 45sek, it’s hard but easier on my legs and easier on CNS. Later I need to change that schedule b/c special end workouts will become faster so would be hard to do one day speed and next fast special end. I ran my two best seasons when doing similar schedule, just my most special endurance workouts were done on forest track in running shoes (just speed drills on hard track in spikes), so overall stress was lower.
However, I’m still 29 and you are 50. You need more recovery for your joints, muscles,tendons so 24 hours rest would be too risky and not worth doing in my opinion. If you manage to control overall volume of your weekly schedule so doing speed one day and special end after 48 hours is ok.
I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I would like to get some input form the kitkat followers on CF.com concerning the following training session which is very closely linked to the sessions being described in this thread. Question…what is your realisitic opinion on anyone being able to perform the following session, or anything close to it:
6 x 250 @ 90% off of 90secs rest
Considering the difficulty many express with kitkat type sessions of 6 x 200 at come home (which with anyone I have worked with is something less than a 90% pace), this just doesn’t seem like a session many, if any, athletes can work through. The extra 50m, plus the increase in pace, even if it is just the difference between 87-88% and 90%, seems excessive. Anyone with experience with these type of sessions have an opinion? And I would love to here kitkat’s view on this.
Thanks,…
Having gone through two KitKat GPP blocks this indoor season (6 weeks x 2) plus the 4 week transition phase, then working through an 8 week CF based mixed short to long program (which included some 400 maintenance work [2x 200+200 and the like once per week]), I can’t imagine being able to complete 6x250 with 90 seconds rest at anywhere close to 90% pace.
I know lots of American coaches love to go from intensive to extensive tempo as the season progresses, but I’ve never seen the rest below 2 minutes or the intensity above 80% to 85% at the absolute max for the above type of workout.
KitKat has a 3x3x300 workout with one minute between each 300, but it’s broken into three sets with 3 minutes or more between each set (at least the way I ran it, I took 4 minutes between sets). I ran it at around 80% though. Keep in mind I’m a masters guy and am by no stretch of the imagination “elite,” but did go through his full GPP / transition and it really, really worked for me. My 300 time dropped by around three seconds overall (42.5 hand timed to around 39.5 hand timed), and I ran almost a half second PB indoors in the 200.
What would the purpose of the proposed 6x250 with 90 seconds rest at 90% workout be?
Thanks Linas. Right now the anaerobic lactic power stuff is just 90-95% efforts with long 5-6min rest and not in spikes yet. Has been a mixture of modalities just to work that energy system. When it gets specific to running and in spikes I’ll make sure it allows for 48+ hours.
There was some discussion about using some very intense sessions to build up work capacity, etc., and it evolved into the discussion of the 6 x 250 @ 90% off of 90 secs. This session was met with some raised eyebrows, including mine, but I wanted to hear the opinions of others, especially on this board, who are more familiar with kitkat’s workouts and might have a more educated opinion of such a workout.
Thanks…
In conversations with the long time forum member Clemson, he likes 6x250 for developing capacity to handle 200m in rounds. It’s close to 90% but I think the rest is a bit longer. I feel the 6x200 serves both 200 and 400 runners.
Doing 5-6x200 building to 200m jog recovery is quite difficult and requires a very high level of fitness. Currently I have one runner who did 6x200 in 26 off 2 min rest. Next week will start the jog recovery. It’s possible we will do every other-jog recovery building to every rep over the next 10 weeks.
I have used this WO alot. But I was always a bit hesitant to start right off as KK does. We kind of used a C Hart system 12x200 @32 r=2 gradually decreasing until I thought our guys were ready to handle 24or 25 sec runs. (our guys are 46-47runners) I’d really like to try going at it much earlier in the training year . Has anyone else started straight away with goal times?
From P7 http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?11082-The-way-of-the-quot-400-quot-Thanks-to-KK/page7 courtesy of Top Cat
[i]To achieve the 5-6x200m for a developing quarter miler you will probably have to go through a progression like:
3x200m
2x200m [5min] 2x200m
3x200m [5min] 2x200m
3x200m [5min] 3x200m
5x200m
6x200m
Doing this session once a week it usually takes 2 sessions at each progression to achieve target times. Depending on the athlete’s endurance qualities they may need more than 5min between sets.[/i]
John,
You are awesome for digging that up. I went straight into 6x200 last year my first time through KitKat’s GPP. I didn’t find out about the above post until it was too late! Great progression by TopCat, I’m going to try it this year.
Ted,
I think it depends on the athlete’s fitness level. Last spring, I had a few guys coming off XC season handle 6x200, it just wasn’t fast yet. They were able to recover quickly between runs. However, a sprinter with limited fitness, may need to have that run split up, with one potential progression above.
I’ve had guys go at it to find out what they could do. When they hit their limit I’d stop and know where to progress from there. Some times I’ve had guys do 4 at pace and die a horrible death at #5. I would then aim to work towards doing 5 in a row for this situation.
ESTI,
Yes there is no way our 46-47 guys could go right into [EMAIL="5-6x200@24/25"]5-6x200@24/25[/EMAIL] r=2. Maybe we will look at topCats progression.
We have after several months of GPP done WO’s like 3x200@25-24-24 R=2and 1. With 10 min rest btwn sets 1rst set in trainers 2nd set in spikes on an indoor track. This kind of gets us ready ror the 5-6x200@24/25. Which is something we have really only tried a few times.
Let me fix the last post The WO we do in the winter 2x3x200@25-24-24.Should actually be 25-25-24. Later in the spring we would go 25-24-24. The one sec faster on the 2nd rep makes a big difference.
I always aim to jog a recovery over the same distance as the rep: run 200m, jog, 200m, run 200m etc. I aim to cover the jog component in 2mins or under. Some athletes, particularly those moving up from a 100m competitive background, needed to walk every part of every recovery. But eventually, if only in the second year, they moved to jogging some or all of the recoveries