A while back i read an article called schroeder’s system revealed by kelly baggett. in it he presented a sample workout from schroeder in which schroeder reccommended ice massage and vibrational massage between sets, specifically ice after isometric sets and vibration between the rest (i dont know if this means anything). My question is wut are the effects of ice massage and vibrational massage during and after workouts. the first thing i thought when i read ice massage was used was “wont ice cool your muscle down counteracting the warmup” im geussing it has something to do with the nervous system since schroders system is greatly dependent on the nervous system instead of a more “bodybuilding approach” oh yea and kelly baggett if u see this maybe u can give some insight on the subject. Finally please dont turn this thread into a debate about schroeder’s , DB Hammer’s , or Kellyb training systems. i just want to have a discussion on the use of ice and vibrational massage for restoration between sets. What is the idea behind it how does it work and should it be used…
This is from a Q&A on inno-sport
Recovery between sets
Either manually shake the muscle loose or use a vibrational massager to help bring the muscle to relaxation in between neuro-duration sets and/or after neuro-duration (strength) workouts. This will help to speed recovery between bouts of work and between training sessions. You can also use ice massage after neuro-mag and neuro-rate (power and speed) trainig sessions. And if you think this is ground breaking information, wake up! Baseball pitchers have been icing their arms after workouts for decades now to help speed recovery and keep their arms healthy.
Alternative paths are to use visual deprivation(i.e. blind folding) with music therapy(calming music) in between sets for athletes who need to relieve neural expenditure in between sets(neuro-duration athletes can be prone to this) and/or athletes who need to learn how to relax, concentrate their efforts to the task at hand and relieve unecessary build up before hand, etc.
I am not an advocate of sauna or hot tub work. Anything where you have to recover from the “recovery method” isn’t good in my book. And don’t be mistaken, dehydration will rapidly kill strength. This has to be regenerated, if it can ever be fully recompensed(sometimes it can’t). Whole body cold showers and the likes is also unecessary strain on the nervous system. Simply use an ice roller on the localized portions of the body that need it. This will allow your benefits to be concentrated while your negative implications dramatically reduced.
Study on EMG and Cold Exposure
A physiology lab out of Finland placed their subjects under different muscle cooling conditions to see the effect it would have on performance and motor co-ordination. The subjects performed depth-drops and depth-jumps onto a force plate after various degrees of cooling. They found that as cooling went up so did muscle activity during the eccentric/absorption phase of the movements, however, concentric activity (assessed using an intergrated electromyogram) decreases due to cooling. Antagonist activity also appeared to increase as the degree of cooling increased. These findings suggest that muscle cooling is a practial training solution to enhance muscle activity during power absorption and stability activities, but mixed contraction work or concentric work in general would need to be excluded from the workout so as to harbor training safety and promote a positive stimulus that illicits performance to increase.
What duration of cold are you suggesting between sets etc? Are you saying no full body cold showers (or hot/cold contrast) or just not between sets or activities during the training day?
Those are the recommendations of DB Hammer. I have seen recommendations as long as 3-5 minutes between sets for ice massage. I don’t think he recommends cold showers, contrast showers or sauna at all.
hey kelly thanks for helping to answer my question . i have another question when doin the ice massage u should ice be applied to tendons too or just localized to the muscle belly. also i want to make sure i completly understand wut you were saying about when to use the ice massage. Tell me if im right, ice massage should be use only when absorbing forces and doing pliometric type excercise because concentric or mixed excercies can cause injury when the muscle is cooled via ice massage.