Is max strength important

He said

“5x5 with >80%”

Guess what “>” means.
Hint: It doesn’t mean “=”

I’m a pretty good level long jumper (7.85m +) and i think it’s vital to lift in the 1-3 rep range at 85-95%. Think about the demands of the LJ and to me it’s easy to figure out why it’s so important.

For a sprinter however, i think it’s still important but slightly less important as power has to be transfered over a long time period…Still should always be in the program though.

Your work capacity must be low. 5x5 @80% after a track workout is not that much. I’ve known many good athletes who do much more than that in one session and even more when they do 2 sessions in a day.

It was >80% so 5x5x85%+… My speed workouts are at times 1000 meters, 20-50 hurdle hops then off to the weight room for cleans then squats. It’s not about getting through the workout but is it ideal?

Well 1000m of speed is much higher than what i do and also you do more hurdle hops than i ever do as well so i can imagine now why you’d be tired for the weights.

If you don’t know how to use it then why bother. I know a 70 year old male that has done 3 x leg press at 400kg (4 spotters under age 30), he takes 15 seconds to run 100m. Great start no finish, who cares who is in front 1/2 way to the finish.

tamfb, are you talking about strength in general, or something like a 1RM vs 10RM?

For the former, it is kind of obvious, so I’m guessing that is not what you are asking.

The later will be more individual. I don’t think it matters too much what you are striving for repetition-wise as long as you are progressing. If I was forced to pick a repetition range of 1-3 or 8-10, I would pick 8-10 because ultimately I will make more progress training that way. Ultimately I will really have more max strength even though I’m not technically training for max strength according to the modern definition.

Then it isn’t their max or they’re taking 10+ minutes rest. I’ve seen plenty of powerlifters and elite athletes (read people who competed in the Olympics and made it past the first round) who couldn’t do 3x5 @ 80% with ~3mins rest, let alone 5x5.

I also know many who can…

I for one can do 3x5 @80% with 3 min rest…without a doubt. And yes it is a true 80%.

You already stated that your sprint volumes are on the low end.

Could they be talking about 85% of the 5RM? This would still be fairly fatiguing over the entire 5 sets whilst providing enough stimulus to increase muscle density. I could be wrong.

With reference to the original question, obviously a degree of strength is necessary for the start + first 20m, and injury prevention. However, I think it is most important to consider individual differences and gauge how well an athlete is going to respond to max strength training (in terms of improvements) and make a decision based on that. Lankier Guys like Bolt need strength to protect them a bit, but may not respond to this sort of training in the same way that they might from top speed or speed endurance development, whilst on the other hand, shorter athletes like Ben Johnson (Tyson Gay even?) present a bigger envelope of improvements in this respect, as they are naturally explosive and have great turnover.

Another question-will a period of max strength training (say, 12 weeks) necessarily slow an athlete down, if only temporarily? Could you work on top speed and max strength at the same time, or would this result in CNS overload due to the considerable intensity of both things.

I count the reps per 10 seconds and program accordingly.

Okay, Nick.

Yes correct…i’d say 300m per session mostly…

lol…not at all.

It’s not so easy for me. Someone else mentioned this elsewhere but never gave any solid reasoning for why it is the case. Do you mind explaining?

I for one would be hard pressed to get 3x5@ 80%, unless I was taking 6-8 minutes between sets. Anecdotally speaking, most of my college teammates would struggle as well. Even 5x3@ 80% with 2-3 minutes rest would be pretty difficult for most people.

I really don’t see how this debate is still relevant, if you have realistic volumes of speed, plyos, MB etc. There is no way that you can go into the weight room and lift circa max weights and expect to progress in that situation. I think a lot of people are putting the cart before the horse and are more interested with the details of their weight work than the much bigger picture of how all the elements interplay with one another.

Charlie (who some people on here must think is a Westside aficionado) has said REPEATEDLY that weights is supplemental work! It must serve the primary stimulus, not the other way around.

As much as some people may disagree with James, he is spot on with his assertion that it is mind-numbingly easy to attain the necessary strength (at least what can be obtained in the weight room) to reach high levels of performance both in sprinting and team sports. Furthermore, using sub-max loads (note: still can be “heavy”) is a much more complementary method while incorporating a holistic program. Remember, the goal is more speed and one would be well served to avoid deviating too far from that specific objective.

OK, doink, >than 80%, and they could do that too. HINT: 81% is > 80%. Eat some carbs. I find it hard to believe that most people think its some extraordinary feat to get 5 reps with your 8 rep max, even if its the fifth set.

For me this is how it breaks down: These numbers are slightly on the high end.

3rm: 92.5-93%

5rm: 85-86%

10rm: 70-74%

How did you arrive at 80% = 8RM? Oh a chart says that? Which is based on what? They are all one person’s interpretation of what they’ve seen. I have seen very few people, regardless of training style, who were able to do 8 reps @ 80%.