Intensive tempo

[Football28]

@Charlie_Francis

This is exactly why you can’t spend alot oof time in a phase that doesn’t allow complete extension. Fitness is relative and specific to how the muscles are used in the event itself.
That said, there is also a danger of “going to the well” too often, which can result in a loss of ROM due to CNS overload.

BTW, those 6x150’s at submax is another way to get some longer work for outdoor prep when you are stuck indoors on a 200m track.

[lylemcd]

@Charlie_Francis

My main concern is when something of this nature is used BETWEEN speed sessions. That’s why I like to define anything like it as speed so people will think to separate it by 48 hrs.

And just as a general statement of training that happens to apply to this discussion, it’s why you can’t look at a single method or take a single coach’s soundbite out of context.

In the context of Charlie’s system with (generally) 2 max speed and one speed endurance day, intensive endurance doesn’t fit anywhere that won’t cause problems. For the reasons he has outlined endlessly.

But in systems where there is not as much emphasis on max speed work or whatever, intensive endurance might very well fit just fine as a borderline type of training between max speed at the one end and speed endurance at the other.

Which is why different schools can all produce champions and why mixing systems often causes major problems. Different systems can all be internally consistent and all work, but they only work b/c they are internally consistent with one another (e.g. they make a tradeoff somewhere in the overall layout).

Lyle

[Football28]

@lylemcd

And just as a general statement of training that happens to apply to this discussion, it’s why you can’t look at a single method or take a single coach’s soundbite out of context.

In the context of Charlie’s system with (generally) 2 max speed and one speed endurance day, intensive endurance doesn’t fit anywhere that won’t cause problems. For the reasons he has outlined endlessly.

But in systems where there is not as much emphasis on max speed work or whatever, intensive endurance might very well fit just fine as a borderline type of training between max speed at the one end and speed endurance at the other.

Which is why different schools can all produce champions and why mixing systems often causes major problems. Different systems can all be internally consistent and all work, but they only work b/c they are internally consistent with one another (e.g. they make a tradeoff somewhere in the overall layout).

Lyle

Very good points Lyle, I played around with CF systems and found it can be done if given enough rest btw sessions. For example:

Mon: Speed: For example 2x40-50-60

Tue: Int tempo: For example 5x200 rest 3-4mins

Wed: Rest, therapy

Thur: SE: For example 2x3x90

Fri: High end ext or Int tempo: For example 4x300 rest 4-5mins.

Sat/Sun: Rest, therapy

2 hard/1 off/2 hard/2 off

[lylemcd]

Sure but you’ve also changed a bit at least how I tend to think of CF short to long which is

mon: starts/speed/weights
wed: SE
Fri:starts/speed/weights
tue/thu/sat: ext end

By dropping 2 days/moving to one speed day and one SE day, you made it work.

I’d also mention that people tend to forget that what an athlete would do as a pure versrion of that athlete (e.g. pure track sprinter, pure OL’er, pure enduro) is different than when mixed sports athletes (e.g. most team sports) have to integrate that type of training into other aspects of training. They also tend not to have the maximum requirements for each capacity since htey are balancing stuffout for the needs of their sport.

So

A track sprinter is sprinting and nothing else. And must develop max speed/SE/etc. to the utmost.

An Ol’er is lifting and nothing else. And must develop technique, strength and power to the utmost.

An endurance athlete is overtraining (ha ha) and nothing else. And must develop Vo2, LT and economy to the utmost.

Athletes in sports that require speed, strength or endurance have to work that into their system (and don’t reqire any of the individual capacities at absolute maximum like the pure sports do).

So something like intensive endurance which gives some of the speed benefits and some of the endurance benefits seems a reasonable compromise. For the same reason that, while an OL’er might be lifting 4-6 days/week for several hours, 2 sessions/week of weights may be more than sufficient. &c

Lyle

[Football28]

I agree Lyle, I found that type of setup works well for me esp during outdoors. Something about the long tempo runs, it does the trick for me. I will say I am not a fan of old school int tempo workouts 6x200 at 85% rest 2mins etc but prefer more modern workouts for my body type 5x200 at 80-85% 3mins rest.

[star61]

I guess part of my confusion exists with what I thought was included in the term ‘intensive tempo’. I thought that not only was there a difference in intensity (Max V >95%, SE > 90%, IT < 90%) I thought that while Max V and SE tended to avoid much of a lactic component by using complete to nearly complete recovery, IT tended to introduce a lactic component by NOT using complete recovery. Part of my confusion concerns whether or not a 100/200 sprinter needs much of a lactic component in their training. If we’re just talking about reduced intensities (i.e., 6 x 150 @ 85% w/ full recovery) I understand and would consider this low intensity SE, but if not using full recovery and doing true (my understanding of the definition) IT with incomplete recovery and a lactic component, I guess I’m still confused.