How to improve hams

[Stefanie]

@tamfb

If i had a lower back issue the last movement I would do is a leg curl.

Good point… when you are using a machine though.
How about manual lying leg curls?

[Nikoluski]

OK, a few things here…

1. My opinion about this exercise was re-inforced by a member here -sorry, but I forget his username- and for my specific purposes, as hamstring exercises (mainly) around the knee should come secondary really.

2. tamfb’s post is very absolute, to say the least. This is from your experience, I guess and without knowing others’ condition.

3. If a specific lying curl machine -because there are those with a built-in inclination- does not favour a nuetral spine -this is what we are talking about here really- make it so by raising your hips. And,

4. We are talking about a very small part of hamstring training here and a secondary one anyway and for general training purposes -as opposed to perforamce training yet- in Stef’s case.

I Very Much doubt Stef’s one-off lower back irritation comes or is brought about from this specific exercise.

As Charlie says, think/ask twice, speak once.

[silver]

So does nobody have an hamstrings activation’s problem?

[Stefanie]

@Nikoluski

I Very Much doubt Stef’s one-off lower back irritation comes or is brought about from this specific exercise.

I agree, besides, I only tried that exercise this past week. And my lower back feels fine these days.

Speaking of back problems… I have been told not to sleep on my stomach so I don’t strain my back. (That’s my most comfortable sleeping position… :mad: )
Generally, whatever involves back pain, I have found is impressively improved through posture adjustments. It’s amazing how my back pain immediately returns once I start sitting cross-legged. But maybe I’m just weird… :rolleyes:

[Stefanie]

@silver

So does nobody have an hamstrings activation’s problem?

Can you just clarify how you personally figured out that your hamstrings are activating poorly? Is this a neurological issue, or a strength one?

[RB34]

[QUOTE=Nikoluski]OK, a few things here…
2. tamfb’s post is very absolute, to say the least. This is from your experience, I guess and without knowing others’ condition.

It’s really simple, if I had a athlete with any sort of back issues, I wouldnt perform a leg curl. If a athlete cant perform a body weight hyper then he/she shouldnt be during a leg curl.

[silver]

@Stefanie

Can you just clarify how you personally figured out that your hamstrings are activating poorly? Is this a neurological issue, or a strength one?

Well,that’ s the real problem…
I think it’ s a neurolgical issue(strongs quads and glutes,but not the hams)…

[Charlie_Francis]

@silver

Well,that’ s the real problem…
I think it’ s a neurolgical issue(strongs quads and glutes,but not the hams)…

Sometimes drills stimulate the use of the hamstrings to be incorporated into runs later- like straight leg bounds etc as part of the warm-up. A few hypers and/or reverse hypers during the warm-up can help also.

[kitkat1]

@Charlie_Francis

Sometimes drills stimulate the use of the hamstrings to be incorporated into runs later- like straight leg bounds etc as part of the warm-up. A few hypers and/or reverse hypers during the warm-up can help also.

We included at least 2 x 30m “stiff-leg dollies” every warmup. That’s when you lock at the ankle and knee joints and do like a stiff-leg bouncing walk building into a bouncing run. The hamstring remains extended and the hips rotate. Tremendous conditioner of the hammy in the extended position. You can raise the load by extending the distance of the “run” but don’t overdo it because the hammies will tie up when they haven’t been conditioned to this.

[123456asdf]

do you have a video of this, i couldnt quite picture it

[mortac8]

@kitkat1

We included at least 2 x 30m “stiff-leg dollies” every warmup. That’s when you lock at the ankle and knee joints and do like a stiff-leg bouncing walk building into a bouncing run. The hamstring remains extended and the hips rotate. Tremendous conditioner of the hammy in the extended position. You can raise the load by extending the distance of the “run” but don’t overdo it because the hammies will tie up when they haven’t been conditioned to this.

Haha This is like reading the Sarhmann or other clinical books…minimal pictures and a ton of words to describe simple movements that end up confusing the reader (no offense, kitkat). Damn those books.
Anyyyway, I think we’re talking something like this
//youtu.be/WU7t5w0DbWE

[silver]

Thanks everybody.
So this drill could wake up the hams?
E what about weights?There is some exercise that activate them-besides hyper and reverse hyper-?
I don’ t know if it’ s better try to activate them with complex or isolate exercise…

[Charlie_Francis]

@kitkat1

We included at least 2 x 30m “stiff-leg dollies” every warmup. That’s when you lock at the ankle and knee joints and do like a stiff-leg bouncing walk building into a bouncing run. The hamstring remains extended and the hips rotate. Tremendous conditioner of the hammy in the extended position. You can raise the load by extending the distance of the “run” but don’t overdo it because the hammies will tie up when they haven’t been conditioned to this.

Stiff leg dollies is the same as Straight Leg Bounds

[Flash]

@adonail

I did have weak hamstrings for more than 6 years an cannot do anything about It (that’s what I was thinking at the time).

I was doing 450’s parallel squat
400’s Stiff leg deadlift

But still I had weak hamstrings, they are no longer my weakness now.

This is what I do:
Squat build up to 3 reps
leg curl warm-up 2x8-10
GHR 3-4x6-8 vertical integration ( build from incline to partial, then negative self assisted, then full reps)

If I can handle It I add some UNI ECCENTRIC leg curl lift the weights with two legs, then lower It with one leg, alternate forn 6-8 reps 3s count for the negative

I’m a little confused on this point. If you were indeed lifting those kinds of loads using good technique, what makes you think your hamstrings were weak? They appeared to be getting the job done. In other words, on what basis were you singling them out as the weak link?

[adonail]

Thanks for asking FLASH maybe I wasn’t clear enough

The reasoning that you have is exactly the one I had at that time. If I can SL dead 400pounds+ why I was stuck in anterior pelvic tilt (psoas/rectus fem/TFL/Lats/gluteus minimus) were all taking care of with regular stretching, but I was still in Anterior pelvic tilt, and sissy hamstrings development.

I can only try to explain that my body was just extremely good at compensate poor hamstrings with higher recruitment somewhere else in the chain. Normally when this is the case, you can see some technical flaws. This wasn’t my case except a little posterior pelvic tilt at 450pounds+, I called technical breakdown and didn’t work at that weight.

My chiro was the one telling me that my thinking at that time was wrong. I needed to work hamstrings by themselves, at leat for a while. This is just what I did with very good results.

3 weeks ago I did some romanian deadlift for the first time since maybe a year. I did step-up loading until reaching the 485pounds. The next morning, only my lower back/traps was fried, everything else fine.

I hope It help you understand my point…

[star61]

@Charlie_Francis

Maybe I never got them right but I found that my output around the hip was limited by my strength around the knee.

Are you saying your lack of strength around the knee or having too much strength limited you? I read it as “too much strength around the knee limited your output around the hip”. If so, this is very interesting. I read an article a few months ago that tried to distinguish elite sprinters from sub-elite sprinters by discriminating on anatomical differences. One statistical correlation that popped up was elite sprinters tend to have a higher ratio of upper thigh circumference measurement to lower thigh measurement than do sub-elite sprinters. The higher the ratio, the larger the difference in muscle mass between hip area hams and knee area hams. My thought then was that elite sprinters simly tended to have bigger thighs. Perhaps its not that their thighs are bigger, but that there is more of a difference in upper hams vs lower hams. I’ll reread.

[JohnConnolly]

I read what he said as “you are only as strong as the weakest link”. You can have all the hip strength in the world, but if the hamstring (knee) buckles under the load you aren’t going to be going any faster. Gotta be balanced.

It’s also very obvious if you know, but measuring circumference is measuring both ham and quad mass. Charlie’s books say the upper ham/glute tie in is KEY (it’s also where I’m weak and working on hard right now).

John

@star61

Are you saying your lack of strength around the knee or having too much strength limited you?

[Charlie_Francis]

John and Star. That’s not my point at all.
The point is: flexion around the knee can never approach the strength available to extend at the hip- nor will flexion ever need to be remotely close.
Given that, you should never allow the limited strength around the knee joint limit your ability to challenge your output around the hip joint.

[JohnConnolly]

so it’s difficult to be too strong around the knee?

back to planning board LOL

for 30 years I’ve run with what I have thought was too much knee bend, trying to fix it now.

John

[Charlie_Francis]

@JohnConnolly

so it’s difficult to be too strong around the knee?

back to planning board LOL

John

The faster you become, the higher the hips and the straighter the support leg on ground strike (that means less of an issue of co-contraction around the knee) Other than that, the knee flexes when unloaded during recovery, making quad flexibility is far more important than flexion strength.