How much knee flexion in depth jumps?

Especially in terms of providing something useful. What good is science, technology, or knowledge, if it can’t be, or purposely isn’t, easily shared freely and used productively.

I don’t mean to interupt the interesting discussion, but for depth jumps -

I’ve been running track since I was 12 but played football and battled injuries since high school. I’ve been running again for the past few months and am probably in (terrible) 11.6ish shape right now.
I’m never going to run sub10.1 I’m hoping to run 10.8 or 10.7 one day.
Should I scrap the depth jumps? I’ve been doing them about once a week in my plyo workouts.

I would say they are almost definitely not needed for a 11.6 runner. I would probably go with some type or types of multi jumps instead.

What “level” do you need to be at to do depth jumps? Are we still using the 2x bwsq standard? Dosage and duration…?

Alright, thanks.
11.6 is a guess. I was about 11.0 in high school, probably faster for the next few years, before injuries kept me off my feet.
I appreciate the advice.

I know I’ve read that depth jumps are only for advanced athletes and should only be used in four to six week blocks etc. etc. But if they are going to give better improvements for an athlete, more so than hurdle hops or some other reactive focused exercise, then why can’t you use a depth jump? Why couldn’t a lower level athlete use a very low depth jump (4-12 inches) to work on their reactiveness and as they improve over time (like months or even years), they increase the height of the depth jump, preferably just using the height that allows them to have the highest jump following the drop.

Why do they have to be saved for special times and only be used for short periods? It’s not like it’s some magical exercise. It’s a drop and a jump. Impact forces are at least as high, if not higher, in a sprint, as well as GCT are faster in a sprint and that’s all on leg, repeated over and over. I just don’t see why if someone wants to improve either their vertical or their reactive strength, they should not use depth jumps unless they have exhausted almost every other means of training. Why use something else if this method is going to reap the greatest, most immediate benefits? And I’m not saying a weak, 15 year old sprinter should be depth jumping from their roof, but depth jumps from a very low height at that level would be beneficial and as they improve, you can always increase the intensity of the exercise by increasing height.

I’m not saying any of this is right but here are my devil’s advocate thoughts.

Good comments. It’s not a magical exercise sometimes it seems shrouded in mystery because Verkoshansky invented them and all translations of his writings are “wrong” except for the Yessis ones so everyone acts like no one really understands them. There are some vague studies about how performance declines after X weeks of depth jumps (plyometrics) (if the search worked I would find it). I think it’s in Charniga’s Verko text as well as in a Dr. Squat article.

Depth jumps are better than hurdle hops? Are they?

35 years ago, no one thought you should do speed/power work year round and save it for the last few weeks. Today people say you shouldn’t do depth jumps year round and save them for the last few weeks. Why? You might not want to “risk it” if you’re an elite but if you’re stuck at the lower levels, why not give it a try? People succeed with all kinds of strange methods (Greek sprint programs with speed nearly every day, etc). I’m not saying it will work but who knows…especially if you keep the heights manageable.

And you’re right, I don’t see how a depth jump is much different than a triple jump, a volleyball spike, doing parkour:) etc.

IMO, depth landings may be more important than depth jumps.

I’m not sure where the 1.5x or 2x bodyweight squat rule originated. It may have originated with Dr. Donald Chu. I know that for basketball players who are already doing plyos and lifting, he has stated that a goal during testing is a 1RM squat of 1.5 x bodyweight. This is a training goal, however, not a prerequisite to performing the jumps.

http://www.donchu.com/articles/article9/

Well for the hell of it heres a video of me doing a depth jump, any thoughts on form knee flexion etc?

//youtu.be/lW4ArnvjUQc

Your GCT look super slow, also i think you could use a lower box bc ur landing mech look like a weak point.

If you’re doing it for reactive strength jumping as high as you can, then there’s undoubtly too much knee flexion. Your jump actually looks more like a counter movement jump.
Have a look at what high jumpers do to get an idea of correct knee angles.

Yep, try to cut almost .1 off your contact time.

You definitely seem to me like a candidate for some lower intensity plyos like hurdle hops.
A few months of those, concentrating on decreasing GCT should prepare you well for DJs.
You could do smaller height DJ, but hurdle hops would be probably more convenient since you don’t need to reset for every jump (you can go 5-6 jumps in a row).
Just my opinion.

You have to be super careful about limiting knee flexion. If lesser bend is desired, height must be decreased as well. I tore my tendon right off the patella falling off a drop of 8 inches or so. Granted this was one leg, off-balance, etc. but you get the picture. Your muscles aren’t the only limiting factor.

I understand my GCT is not fast, but that is not really my goal, my goal is to get as high as possible from this height, and since it is equal to my vertical the height is not a problem, according to verkhoshansky when doing shock gct is not the most important thing to worry about, landing soft and jumping high…

Ok, so dont ask what people think since you have all your data from verk.

James what are your thoughts on these jumps? I know you used DJs with your combine guys.

Well you have to ask yourself if it’s better to touch something lik like 9’10" with a .25 contact time or 10’ with a .37 contact time (as in your video). If you wander into the world of specificity, you’re rarely going to have .37.

I’m not saying either way is better than the other but I’d like to see something .30 or under. If .30 is not achievable, I would look to depth landing work.

“I had my proday guys who varied in weight between 195-260 all work up to a 30” drop height. The stronger more reactive guys were able to start with the higher drop while a few others started around 18" and worked up to 30" over the course of 2-3 weeks".

I happened to see James’s pro day guys jump from close to the same height as myself and it looked pretty simlair. Tam why you gotta get all angry man, theres different ways to give advice other than the ground contact time stuff

anyways heres two more depth jump videos that i have taken before…

//youtu.be/M3ORt6mmolM

//youtu.be/Ed_ecLKfm6Y