Well up here in Canada we don’t call Black people brown and call brown people white and white people red. As a brown person I don’t find this offensive at all and I don’t expect black people to be pissed off if there called black and white people to be pissed off if there called white. :rolleyes:
I disagree. Soccer is still not a popular sport in Canada or the USA for that matter. Yes, its becoming to be more accepted and more popular in North America, especially after the World Cup was held for the first time outside of Europe or the South America’s in 1994 when the USA hosted; but thats no where even near the scale of coverage that Europe covers in this sport.
I mean, many Americans (in 1994) when surveyed didn’t even know that their country was hosting a tournament of that grand scale; certainly tells you something about the ignorance of this sport in N.A., and why shouldn’t they be? I mean, its only been 10 years since N.A. was even exposed to the sport at that level of play and it was in their own back yard.
I think it is total and utter bull shit. The reasons are what you call multivariate. One of many many many reasons that black men and women are so successful in sport is because now the racist thoughts that certain groups in the white communities around the world believed, has now turned on itself. I will give you an example. At University, we had a plethora of outstanding white sprinters capable of reaching the highest level and running 9.9 secs. But guess who were least supporting of their endeavours? Other white people, their friends their families and others would tell them that they stood no chance against athletes of black origin. They assume that black athletes just step on the track do no hard work and just drop fast times like confetti. Tell that to Dwayne Chambers who would dread doing his special endurance runs. It is hard work plain and simple, yes if you have the prerequisites then you will do well but as a black athlete myself I think its bull shit that people in 2004 are now reverse stereo typing. Remember that Borzov and Minnea came close to to running 9.9 secs. Are you telling me that they lack some mystical gene that stops them from running 9.9 secs? BULL.
Also as a black person and any other person, you are influenced by tradition and role models. You look at human activity, sport, entertainment commerce, sex, and other areas; black people have invisible barriers to overcome ALL over the world. Except for sport, entertainment, and sex these can not be controlled so tightly and so what happens is success can not be denied first past the post wins. Also the start up costs are minimal. No one can control you so easily.
Now this bull shit thing about the biggest and hardest black people being taken to work as slaves is bull shit. The reason you do not see so many black athletes doing well in the sprints from Africa is due to underdevelopment, and cultural reasons. The reason you see more blacks in Western societies doing well is because of better nutrition technical know how and wealth, and the fact that many young black people believe that other avenues are closed off. The sad truth is they are.
Linford Christie once was asked in an Interview why he thinks most of the successfull sprinters in GB are black. His answer was: “I don’t know, but it’s much easier for a black man to join the local track club than ever get a job with the Bank of England.”
The color of an athletes skin might be obvious, but there are other interesting facts about the best sprinters in history, that might be not so obvious:
It’s a fact that the 10 second barrier was ONLY (excluding ALT. performances) broken by men from English speaking Nations, the “Anglo-American Nations” and former British colonies (no disrespect to US and CAN), no Brazilian, no Indian (>1 billion people!) no Chinese (>1.3 billion people!)
Top 100 performing Nations who ever had sub10 times are:
USA 9.78
CAN 9.84
NAM 9.86
TRI 9.86
GBR 9.87
JAM 9.91
AUS 9.93
NGR 9.94
GHA 9.98
SKN 9.98
I fully agree with martn76…but would even go further: the Darwinistic argument about physical supremacy of people in the Carribean and North America who’s ancestors were slaves originates from Black Power ideologists and is nothing but the old (white) racism turned around and indeed a dangerous arugument because it could be (and in fact is) sometimes turned around again.
But these arguments might lead to too much controversy…so maybe we should stay with discussing optimal training not optimal genes…
There is an article in tmag that black people have more fast twitch fiber. Also their limbs are longer in proportion. They also have more testosterone.
True - It’s a bit pointless to be honest.
I’m kinda more comfortable talking about the variables I can change - like my strength and flexibility.
Not sure I can change my colour that easily.
Another thing is that black people mature earlier than white people which helps them get into sports. Look at lebron james. That guy looks and is built like a 25 yr old. I am sure there would be alot more white players in the nfl but it is harder for them to get into the top colleges because they aren’t as strong and fast as black people bec. they are not mature yet.
So what? Should white athletes hang up their spikes? It makes out as if a certain group is achieving only because of nature and not because of hard work and it makes a another group feels as though they can NEVER achieve 9.9 secs status because of nature. The sky is the limit, you can control other things in training. Lets move onto other things that can help.
The questions to ask then if this article is correct are:
How do you go about training those who do not posses the prerequisites intially to run 9.9 secs?
Is it possible to develop those qualities?
Do not forget that the human body is an adaptable machine
Lets not forget Borzov, Minnea, Woronin, Urbas, Kenteris to name a few. How did they overcome this supposed lack of natural andowment or do they possess the qualities already, were they freeks, outliers, anomalies, mutations?
What is the statistical occurance of these qualities in populations around the world?
I have heard the opposite. You generally grow bigger and taller if your sex hormones develop slowly and growth hormone is allowed to affect all tissue. What matures you quickly and stunts growth is estrogene hence women mature faster and have smaller statures. Men stop growing when enough testosterone released by their testes is converted by aromatase into female hormones. Bones have receptors at the ossification siter that have an affinity to female hormones which then causes the bone to mature.
What a load of bull shit. If Carl Myerscough (GB shot putter) grew up in the US that Behemoth would surely be a punishing line backer. There are more than enough white Myerscoughs in the US to make it to NFL status. Is a question of self discrimination that needs to be addressed.
Sprinting is all about power, weightlifting is all about power. For those of you who think it is all genetic and not social, why have there been no athletes of African descent (whatever that means!) win an Olympic gold medal in the sport of weightlifting? If athletes of African descent have a such an genetically advantage, they should dominate weightlifting.
That they don’t is a pretty strong argument that there are other (non-genetic) factors involved in both their success in sprinting and lack of success in weightlifting. Access, motivation, social support, coaching, etc…
Saying it is all due to genetics does a disservice to every athlete that has trained their ass off to reach their personal peak whether they are white, black, blue or purple. Potential is just potential until you work to turn it into reality and the only way to find out if you have the genetics to make it to greatness is to strive for it.
I never said that a white man could not run a 9.9s; also, there are multivariate reasons as well.
That was one of my points which many have you seem to have missed.
If you look at the data (i.e.from sceptic magazine) over 90% of the world’s fastest men were Black and these men came from West Africa, the Dominican, Canada, and the U.S.A. If you trace back their heritage, you will find that most of them came from western Africa.
Is your buddy’s name Jimmy the Greek? Also tell your buddy that my brother held the 400m IH record in DR for years and he was a WHITE BOY!!!
I agree with you fully on these points.
The Facts From Sceptic Magazine Vol.8 No.1 2000:
On page 30
“On average West African blacks have 67.5 percent fast-twitch muscle fiber and French Canadian whites 59 percent. Given a normal distribution curve, there should be more black individuals than whites at the far end of the curve [90-100% range]where Olympic sprinters would be found.” Adapted from P.F.M. Ama, et al., “Skeletal Muscle Charactersitics in Sedentary Black and Caucasian Males,” Journal of Applied Physiology, 1986. Graph redrawn from, and caption from Taboo by Jon Entine, p. 255.
Then on the page 31
Top 100 times by country or ancestry shows that W. African as 100% for the 100m. In the 200m 90% W. African, 5% Brazil/Mex, and 5% white. In the 400m 95% W. African, 1.5% Brazil/Mex, 3.5% Kenyan. At longer distances the W. African fall off dramatically to about 12.5% to the point where there are no W. African in the 1,500m and finally when you reach the Marathon which is dominated by 36% white and 32% Kenyan. “Graph redrawn from, and caption from Taboo by Jon Entine,.p. 33.”
Also on the same page
“Eurasian whites are the premier wrestlers and weight lifters in the world. Evolutionary forces have shaped a population with large, muscular upper bodies with relatively short arms and legs and thick torsos. These proportions tend to be an advantage in sports in which strength rather than speed is at a premium. This region also turns out an extraordinary number of top field athletes-javelin throwers, shot-putters, and hammer throwers.”
And in the next paragraph
“Athletes who trace their ancestry to western African coastal states, including Britain, Caribbean and American blacks, are the quickest and best leapers in the world. Consequently, they almost monopolize the sprints up to 400 meters. No white, Asian, or East African runners have broken 10 seconds in the 100m. The top two hundred times in the 100m-all under 10 seconds-are held by athletes of West African descent. All 32 finalists in the last four Olympic men’s 100-meter races were West African. The likelihood of that happening based on population numbers alone is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001.”
Then on the next paragraph
“Studies have shown that athletes of West African origin hit a biomechanical wall after about 45 seconds of intense, anaerobic activity, when aerobic skills come into play. East Africans, who have small and slender ectomorphic body types and are therefore hapless in the sprints, dominate distance running.”
Then on page 32
“Whereas the West African population evolvedd in the lowlands and remained relatively isolated, East African runners trace their ancestry to the highlands. This region in Africa is also a genetic stew, with studies indicating mixture of genes from invading Arabs and Middle Easterners.”
Then on the next paragraph
“Kenya, with 28 million people, is the athletic powerhouse. At the Seoul Olympics in 1988, Kenyan men won the 800, 1,500, and 5,000 meters, along with the 3,000-meter steeplechase. Based on population percentages alone, the likelihood of such a performance is one in 1.6 billion. The Kalenjin people of the Great Rift Valley adjacent to Lake Victoria-who represent 1/2000th of the world population-win 40% of top international distance running honors and three times as many distance medals as athletes from any other nation in the world. One tiny district, the Nandi, with only 500,000 people, swept an unfathomable 20% of major international distance events. By almost any measure, the Nandi region is the greates concentration of raw athletic talent in the history of sports. It’s a potent example of the interacting bio-cultural forces that shape great athletes.”
Now do you still think this is Bullshit?
P.S. I never said anybody should hang up their spikes! I’m just merely pointing out what your up against at the elite level. Interpret the results and learn from them or be ignorant and base your opinions on heresay. My whole point in the last couple of posts was that assuming the slave theory was correct, then strength training is the ultimate equalizer against genetics.
Well,
I’ve got african origins and I should be happy for what I’m hearing here. But come on. I don’t like it or believe in it. Does anyone dissagree with me that there are A LOT of slow black people out there.
I mean I was a very slow athlete when I started. Now I compete world class. It took me a lot of time and hard work to achieve it and I believe my genetics had nothing to do with it. While on the other side I had a friend of mine who started off FAST relatively and now is hardly improving anything at all!! You know why? Because he’s just not training as hard as I have and he’s not working the right way. These are the only variables that affect it all. Thats what I believe at least.
Number 1: I am of West African origin, born in West Africa, both my parents are from West Africa, I now live in GB, so I have nothing to gain from holding this point of view.
Number 2: I have read all those french scientific papers; the subjects were from Cameroon and France. There are other factors involved apart from merely having a high % of fast fibers to run.
Number 3: I am certainly not ignorant.
Number 4: There will always be white men who are capable of running 9.9 secs. There may be a smaller group in that percentile who can run 9.9 secs, but they do exist.
Number 5: Be careful of scientific papers that profess to account for why certain groups do well in a particular sport by just studying one particular aspect.
Number 6: My opinions are not heresay but that line about slaves and breeding is bull shit. The same traits amongst Black people in the Carribean and America exist in Western Africa and in other groups around the world.
Lets talk about what really matters; training.
That’s an important point to me. I can think of at least 10 other different biological aspects which might be as important for being a fast sprinter (CNS disposition, homonal disposition, skeletal proportions,…). Every other year you will read a scientific paper picking out THE one aspect that makes you fast. Same applies for other sports.
And think about what Charlie says about muscle biopsies…
nontheless the facts speak for themselves!
I am surprised no one mentioned that there is one Sub10 with a great deal of caucasian ancestory.
Patrick Johnson - 1/2 Aboriginee (NOT West African) and 1/2 Irish (Caucasian). 9.93?