How important is your indoor season? You may have to compromise your indoor season for a more fruitfull outdoor season.
They (kids) want to run and beat their records every season, either is indoor or outdoor. Both they have their championships, both they have their records. I would like to prepare them as best as I can for the season. But you are right… I think the progress is more important than just one successful season…
However, my question is, should I put 2x600m into a GPP? Once per week?
Sounds to me like you have a recipe for injury going from skiing to 60m indoors!
what should I do? Any advice?
If you have time, try to read the Lactate Threshold discussion on the Forum. One hint - You have SPRINTERS (with some speed?), moving to 400m; they are still young … WHY do you want to include 600m’s in your programme?? Look at the programme examples of Kitkat - I am from the same ‘old’ school! - you can work on a maximum of 350m distance (occasionally a 500m as part of a test). The athletes WILL be prepared for a 400m.
My feeling is to develop and maintain the speed factor of the athletes … I do believe that training of 600m doesn’t have any purpose in your situation.
Hope I have convinced you!! Good luck with the coaching!
How long is this break? Consider all factors to which your athletes are accustomed to and work around them, progressively moving towards your plans; don’t go crazy with changes even if they are helpful in theory. I hope you understand what I mean. As for the post-camp period I would be extra careful until things are back to normal, even if there is time pressure. It’s a tricky period to have an injury for the rest of the season even. Good luck and be patient until you are able to do more things you way…
I will check it. However, Clyde Hart does with his athletes 2x 600m with rest 15min. during fall period. For 46s runner is run 60 for 400m and than maintain the rest of the distance. I thought do it with 65 s and the rest we will see. These athletes are in 51 sec. max for 400m.
You will have to choose between Clyde Hart and Charlie/Kitkat!
(My problem with Clyde’s programme - which you can find on MANY web sites on the internet - is the following: Do you REALLY think that he will provide EXACT examples of his training sessions to the world? I have been at a course which was presented by Clyde and Michael a few years ago … and their practical training and the above-mentioned programmes did not ‘match’!!)
The MAIN question to you - What is your goal with the session 2 x 600m? Endurance? At what intensity do you plan your athletes to run?
When I get answers on the above-mentioned questions - I will try to give some solutions!
I would go with Charlie and Kitkat1. I remember when olivia tauro ran and convincingly won her first state 400 at 14yrs, she was training for 100m.
I wanted the pace at 65 s for 400m and then we will see how they manage the rest of the 600m ( I figure out that first sesseion would be like 1:40? and in couple of week lower to 1:30) but pace will be in GPP same-65 for 400m Nothing faster. The rest would be 15min.
The rest of the session for the week will be in charlie style for GPP (only wednesday exeption)
Still not good idea? The reason is thet at begining of Decemberthe athletes must go on camp with cross-country skis ( and do couple of miles on them every day- call condition camp) The competition season starts second week of January. That’s the reason I want to put 600m on program. I figure out when they come back from the camp, we will have a light week-nothing fast-for recovery. tham another 4, 5 weeks…
And I would like to know- the Charlie’s GPP Essential plan is for 60m-400m runner, same? Same model?
On the cross-country skis have one or two athletes wear compression clothing. The whole concept of skins was thought up during a skiing holiday.
I tend to agree with sprint coach. In terms of track work, I don’t go over any further than 300m in a single rep for 400m athletes and have a similar philosophy for my 800m runners who don’t go over 600m in a single rep.
I’m not critical nor against those who do use 600’s for 400 athletes, I just prefer not to.
The Hart program works much better-IMO-with people who are already very fast in h.s. (Wariner-20.41w and 45.57) or have good speed and are very undertrained-(Johnson running 21.3 in h.s. on 2-3 days per week)-or at least this is what I was told by someone close to that camp.
There is not much speed development work that would take place in the Hart program that would be seen in CF’s 400 program SPP as seen on this site.
Yes, I understand. But the Charlie GPP model here is overal for sprinter 60-400? Or was build for 60-100m sprinters? I didn’t understand if that concept was for all sprinters and than during SPP the short and long sprinters split and started their SPP? However, SPP here was 12 weeks long, my SPP is max 4,5 weeks long…
The longest run in Charlie’s GPP program except tempo work was 60m… still enough?
There is an example of a 400m programme (Charlie) available - DEFINITELY with reps longer than 60m … I don’t know which programme you refer to.
I do agree that 4½ weeks for SPP is not enough BUT if you cannot change it, you will have to make the best of it. My recommendation would be to use the ‘Transition’-programme of Kitkat (4 weeks) in that time. It is available on the Lactate Threshold discussion. (Will help you with the page number - sometime over the weekend!!)
GPP Essential… 7 weeks program-Hill max 40m,.7th week 60m Nothinh beyond that… Can you hint GPP for 400m runners?
GENERAL PREPARATION PHASE & TRANSITION PHASE
I used the general prep to develop virtually everything EXCEPT pure speed. We stayed in touch with high velocity running during the so-called speed-power cycle, but not with the sort of training we did in the nine months which followed the 3-months general prep period.
During GPP I tried to develop the strength to finish the last 80m of the race. We developed the base, then maintained and further developed a thread of that strength at even more race-specific levels during the pre-season and through the in-comp period.
So the so-called strength-and-endurance cycle of 2-1/2wks went like this:
GENERAL PREPARATION PHASE
Wk1
Day Session(s)
- 2-3 x 4x150m
- Long Hills + Weights
- Rest (or 1hr Gymnastics)
- 5x200 + Weights
- Long Hills
- Jog (15-30mins) + Weights
- Rest
Wk2
- Sprints ladder 350, 300, 250, 200, 150, 100, 60, 50, 40, 30 - slow walkback recoveries.
- Jog 15-30min + Weights
- Rest (or 1hr Gymnastics)
- 2 (300+150) + Weights
- 5 x 200
- 2x5x100 tempo runthroughs, walkback + Weights
- Rest
Wk3
- Long Hills
- 3x3x300m + Weights (Upperbody only)
- Rest (or 1hr Gymnastics)
4 Rest (or Warm-up, warm-down) +NO WTS. - Track fast, relaxed 300+4x60, 250+3x60, 200+2x60, & 150+1x60.
- Jog 15-20mins + Weights (Whole body)
- Rest
Wk 4 (Repeats for Wk5):
-
300+60,50,40,30; 200+60,50,40,30; 150+60,50,40,30 (30sec rest between long rep and first short rep)
-
Field Circuit (about 6mins) + NO WEIGHTS
-
Rest (or 1hrs Gymnastics)
-
300+150, 150+150, 100+80, 80+60, 60+60 (all 30sec b/reps; full rec between sets) + Weights.
-
Jog 15-20min
-
3-6 (2x60m Skip, 2x80m Sprint Buildups, 2x80m Sled Pull or Equivalent Light Resistance)
-
Rest
Wk 6
Rest & Test Wk
- Rest
- Warm-up, Warm-Down
- Trials 300m (stand start), and 150m. + Weights (Lowest Reps Possible).
- Rest
- Trials 80m and 200m + Weights (As Normal, all exercises, for volume at 80-85% of 1rmax)
- Rest
- Rest
REPEAT 6-WK CYCLE STARTING FROM WK 1.
Now that’s the basical outline. You have to monitor the athlete closely. I don’t want to be prescriptive with times because every athlete will have to vary, depending on training years and ability and commitment. No-one is going to go from being a 50sec runner to 44sec in one year (unless they have previously been close to 44sec).
I make zero demands during the first cycle. But I use that to calculate (also based on PBs and standard 400m models) what MIGHT be appropriate target times for the reps for each individual.
The second time through the cycle, I ask more of the athlete, of course with consideration to all the things posted earlier on this thread.
As I said, “absolute” speed is not really being develop. There is too much volume even in the speed-power cycle to classify the work as 100m develop-type stuff. But as the athletes get fitter, they can deliver some fairly impressive speed through those sessions - especially over the years. The best male 400m runner I had the honour to work with started to run some ridiculously quick times during some GPP sets. Then again his body adapted over the seven years (double periodised) we worked together.
kk
Transition usually lasts four weeks, never less. I monitor every rep, set and session in person to make sure fatigue (for the most part) didn’t wreck the run. If so, I would intervene and go for more rest or change the session or finish it.
Rightly or otherwise I did the same week of training four weeks in a row. That way it was like a little test each week leading into the first relays or low-key races of the new season.
I should add that due to the unacceptable risk of injury, I didn’t allow the (injury-prone) top male to race over 100m and rarely over 200m. All his comps were in 4x400 or 400m off the blocks. All sprints at shorter distances during the domestic season were set-up time trials where we could control all the variables. He would not become vulnerable because the raceday program was brought forward, or delayed or because he needed an extra 20mins to get loose and he only had 18mins (if you understand). I viewed my job as getting him to win medals in international 400m races. Not reach finals at 200m or quarter-finals at 100m or whatever. However you would love to have been at some of those time trials. Phew! So thrilling!
Our job was to enable him to be the last man standing. Therefore any sign of a risk to his health or fitness was eliminated whenever possible. I did whatever I could to control the performance environment. I may have erred on the side of caution, but he - like most of the other athletes I’ve worked beside - enjoyed quite successful seasons/careers largely unhampered by injuries (when training with me).
TRANSITION PHASE:
Day 1:
Warm-Up,
Ins and Outs: 2 x 2 x ins-and-outs (buildup to around 40m, 100% effort for 12m-and eventually out to 20m, then fast-turnover but best relaxation to maintan velocity through a 20m exit zone. So the I&O looks like 40-20-20.
There should be good recoveries, maybe 8 to 10mins between reps. Then there should be 10-15mins between the two sets. Then full-ish recovery of say 15-20mins before the second element of the session, which is a sequence of Stand-Crouch, Fly runs from 30 to 60m.
(In Sequence: Standing, Crouching, Flying)
3 x 30m, 3 x 40m, 3 x 60m.; WarmDown.
…
Day2:
Warm-Up, (No ins-and-outs)
5 x 100m buildups on a bend.
4 x 150 (in this sequence: Tempo 1st 150m, diagonal jogback to start, Fast 2nd 150m, diagonal walkback to start, Tempo 3rd 150m, diagonal jogback to start, Fast 4th 150m. Ends session.
Weights
…
Day 3:
Active Rest : Sometimes Gymnastics 1hr of mostly propricoceptive routines, such as tumbles emerging into a vertical jump with 360 rotation around the vertical axis and land facing the same direction as you emerged from the tumble. There were many of these combinations, including horizontal rolls (performed with arms and legs outstretched, no use of arms permitted in initiating or maintaining movement).
Fullbody Deep-tissue MASSAGE permanent booking for this day.
…
Day 4:
Warmup,
2x2x Ins and Outs (As Day 1),
Then all flying:
300m, 250m, 180m, 150m, 120m. (Sometimes it was 260m, 180m, 160, 140, 120).
These were usually with partner(s), usually with about a 10-12mins recovery, but more if desired. The athletes at this stage of their season were told not to fight for something (speed) that isn’t there yet. Equally, giving them 10mins or 30min rest between reps didn’t really improve the speed of their reps, but the longer rest did pose a risk of the athlete getting cold or tight.
The sprints were about rhythm and position (triple extension).
Weights
…
Day 5:
Warm-up,
(no ins-and-outs)
Race Modelling: 4 x 100 (wherever most needed, but at this stage of the year it is usually down the backstraight and into the turn through the 200m start area, finishing at the waterjump).
2 x 200m + 200m
1st set:
1st 200m at intended 400m race split (mid-21sec for elite male, high 23 to low 24sec for elite female).
Two minutes recovery.
2nd 200m at 100% of whatever was left.
FULL RECOVERY b/sets (often up to 45 minutes)
2nd set:
1st 200m tempo in about 23sec elite male/ 26sec elite female;
Two minutes recovery.
2nd 200m at 100%, aim to negative split (ie: run the second 200m faster than the first 200m of this set).
…
Day 6:
Warm-Up,
Warm-Down
Weights (Usually upperbody and torso work only)
CHIROPRACTOR appointment: to check alignments and adjust if needed.
…
Day 7:
Race (4x400m relay usually, certainly nothing shorter and no individual races until week 4 of the transition block has been completed.
Thanks Kitkat - saves time!! Can you imagine going through ALL 122 pages AND 1825 ‘replies’ to try to get to the GPP and Transition programmes!!! On the other hand - when I started yesterday with Page 1, I discovered LOTS of useful info once more … It will be good to read through all the discussions again. Maybe in the December holidays!
I do hope that you will find your answers now, Pavel. I’ll put my stamp of approval on these programmes. It WORKS!!
Yes, thank You guys! 
I have another question with regard to SPP concept of 400m preparation. During December we cannot go longer than 150m due to facility. Is it good option to use this session: 2x (3x150m) rest 2 min / 15min? And another: 2x (4x80m) rest 90’’ / 15min. If so, what times should be for athletes with 51 over 400m? About? Thanx a lot! 