In GPP for a short to long programme would lactic tolerance training be involved or not? I dont see the point in training it if I am going to stop it after GPP for a while.
Are you running 400m? If you are only running 200 then you don’t need to do it.
I thought a 200m runner would need some lactic tolerance, more so the slower the 200m pb?
Sorry just realised this is in 100m section. Is the query specific to a 100m runner?
mainly 100m but also maybe 200m
I’d include a small amount during gpp in the form of intensive tempo like such sessions as 3x(4x100) with 90 seconds rest between reps and 3-5 between sets perhaps. I would include a bit later in spp as well in the form of split runs. For a 100-200 runner I’d day 150-150 for a split 300 or 200-100 for a split 300. That is not necesarily how i would progress it but in my long term plan I would def incorparate some of it.
Do you really think this would be necessary? Wouldn’t the lactic tollerence be developed (indirectly) as the runs progressed through the SPP phase (either L-S or S-L)? Sure you will get some lactic to start with when you start hitting the 500/150 marks but by about week 8-10 of SPP none of any of my athletes feel any lactic during 100m and almost none during 200m. I have never considered this necessary for a 100/200 man though i may be brash in my assumptions…
It may not be completely necessary but it has worked well for me and my athletes in the past. Do 3x (200+100) with 90" rest and 10 mins rest and see if they get that burn. I use this workout in spp. Likewise I am progressing to the 2x3x200 intensive tempo workout this years but I am planning to start with 3x4x100 which i previously mentioned. However your right you may not get a very high blood lacate fron that. Again, just throwing ideas out.
When you are doing extensive tempo, what percentage of top speed are you running? Do you do it on grass or on track? Do you work that in each week? Does it take the place of an extensive tempo day or does it take the place of speed/hill work?
What are the best times your 100m/200m runers have achieved tc? Just curious as I thought the faster the runner, less of a need for lactic work, more need for special end work, thanks.
Yeah, it would make a nice change, I will write this into my black book of training ideas !
Im not so clear on your question.
I do ext. tempo at 65-70%. Somtimes on grass. Sometimes track. Early in the year I usually do only 100’s so it is done on grass. Not that i reread the post I think you meant to ask me how fast my int. tempo is. My intensive tempo I try to keep right around 80-85%. The split runs will be faster. Around 90% with the backup rep being done all out under control. It can take place of hills or speed work but is never done in place of ext tempo for recovery.
Thanks for correcting my post. I did mean intensive tempo. That’s not been part of my program in the past since I thought that stuff in that 80% area was not all that beneficial – not fast enough for speed development and too fast for recovery. I can see a benefit for working the lactic system though. How many times a week do you do intensive tempo during GPP or SPP? Once? Twice?
If you really want to understand where intensive tempo fits (nowhere!!) then get the GPP DVD and the Vanc2 discs. You will see that lactic work is there progressively up and then down in the end of the GPP through the longer hills and into the SPP through split-runs SE, not via tempo.
I have the GPP DVD and follow that approach, which is why I haven’t had intensive tempo in my plan. Thanks for reiterating this. I’ll stick with the split runs in SE during SPP.
Special Endurance IS the lactic work.
Sorry I missed your post first time round.
I see your point - if they are all running very fast times then less lactic so no need for lactic work. Unfortunitly my athletes (well most of them) arn’t running 10.2 yet (but they have a few years left to achieve that!).
So far using Charlie’s system i have had the following results FAT for athletes that compete over both 100 and 200:
100: 10.7, 11.1, 11.9
200: 21.6, 22.7, 24.2
Interestingly, the last set of time were achieved by a female (2 years training age) who dropped from 12.7/25.9 to 11.95/24.2 in 1 year using a short to long progression and peaked 2 times June, August. No lactic work and a small volume of tempo (2 runs a week of 1000-1300m) were used. So when Charlie says you get the lactic work from the SPE I believe him!
Personally, unless you are doing 400m I don’t think you need to run yourself into the ground with the intensive tempo stuff to get the lactic tollerence (and even then I am still not convinced).
My philosophy is that the “endurance” you need for sprinting is achieved primarily through learning to hold form at high velocity rather than via metabolic adaptations (though obvously these happen while trying to achieve the form thing - Charlie’s point above).
And as you point out the other good thing is the faster you get using the speed based training the less the you need to worry about lactic acid. So in many ways you kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Hope this helps.
Charlie, I’ve noticed that the lactic/special endurance work is phased out in your your short to long program, from the Vanc04 DVD, to focus mostly on speed. Why doesn’t it carry forward, at least somewhat, until the end of the program? Is it because the effects of the lactic training remain for a number of weeks after the training has ended?
I guess I’m asking why is lactic work needed if it is going to be phased out eventually?
Because if you want to run fast times at the indoors you want to switch your focus towards speed as you approach competition. If you leave the speed endurance in you will either overtrain or you have to cut back on speed work (which you don’t want to do).
Basically, if you increase one method of training you must decrease others to compensate (see CFTS periodisation section).
As for why do you bother to do SE in the first place… everything must build on something else. Unless you have the ability to accelerate to 30m don’t bother to try and run fast times over 100m - to do that you must be able to accelerate as far as possible to hit a higher top speed. So you need the lactic work (from the higher number of short runs) to prepare your body for the metabolic demands of running a full 60m. Once this is in place you can then focus on speed because there is no limiting factor.
If i am mistaken I’m sure someone will correct me.
Awesome improvement by the female athlete! The guys are pretty quick too!