well most people here no my feelings on supplementation. there is a time and a place for it. they shouldnt be used continuously but during certain times for a given period of time for a very specific reason.
i havent heard!!!???
i heard you mention once about eating a lot of fruit n veg as the main parts of your diet, that was all…
as a question, do you follow the “Fit for Life” it talks about most foods being fruit n veg. n other things too.
actually not fruit just veg. simply for better control over my hormonal response to food intake.
I know this is a monster post… But again any input from you guys is invaluable to me, and truly appreciate it.
ok so here’w what i’ve come up with:
MON- sprints/weights
warm ups.
sprints: 1x10, 2x20, 2x30, 5x40, 2x60 yards
Weights: squats variation: 1x3, 4x5
RDls 3x5
single leg hypers: 3x10
bench variation: 4x5
core: 3x10 of whatever ab exersise
TUES: tempo/conditioning A, B or C (as described below)
WED: off
THURS: sprints/weights
warm ups.
sprints: same as mon.
weights: dead variation 1x3, 3x5
bul. split squats 3x5 (each leg)
nat. GHR 3xwhatever i can manage
overhead press or inc. press, 3x5
pull ups, 3x5
abs, 3x10 of whatever ab exersise
Fri: tempo A, B, C (as described below)
sat: UNDECIDED on what to put here…
i’m thinking maybe a short plyo session followed by a speed endurance or special endurance type run such as:
2x10 tuck jumps
2x10 bounds
2x10 jump running
2x150m (full spd) rest 15mins btw reps, 1x250m (full spd) rest 20min, 1x300m (full spd).
then finish off with a general conditioning circuit
consiting of BW exersises, core work, skipping, backwards running etc.
Sun- Off
tempos:
A: 100m (16-17s) rest 30s, 200m (35-37s) rest 45s, 300m (56-58s) rest 70s, 400m (~80s) rest 90s… x3
B: 2 sets 8x200 at 35-37 s for each rep with 45s rest btw reps and 1min btw sets.
C: 200m (35-37s) rest 45s, 300m (57-59 s) rest 70 s… x 6
(the original post of these sessions which 75% was not really accurate since i don’;t actually know my best times for the 100, 200, 300 etc… so i thought the actual times may give you a better idea as to whether or not they’re ok)
Notes:
every 3-4 weeks switch exersises for main core lifts
each 1x3 is generally a PR attempt (let me know if this is a no-no)
every 2-3 weeks i’ll up slightly the volume of speed work
as the tempos get easier i may decrease rests or increase speed
every 5th week i’ll back off slightly and do only one speed/weights session (with weights at lower volume) and two tempos
Concerns/Q’s:
When should the weights be done:
i’ve searched, and some say that its better done 4+ hours after to give you a chance to rest, eat, and come back a little stronger. On the other hand, some say its better to do it right after b/c you’re warm or something… but i’m concerned with the workout running too long since i’ve heard that after 1 hour cortisol levels start to increase and testosterone decreases which will deplete gains and quality of work.
should i add medball workouts to my tempo sessions?
Forget the cortisol crap. Most of the workout is rest, this isn’t an endurance bodybuilder workout with short rests and continuous movements.
Why are you doing a 1x3 PR attempt every freakin workout? I don’t understand it. I would do higher reps on the assistance works (bulgarian split squats and rdls, maybe 3x8).
You don’t need speed endurance as a soccer player. Take Saturday as a recovery day or off. If you feel you aren’t doing enough, then up the volume on your HI days. You can add medball to your tempo sessions. Do some searching, all of this has been answered before by the big guys (CF et al).
I would slow those 100s a bit.
So when (if ever) should i try for PRs? once/week, once every/2 weeks?
this workout though seems like its more of a speed develpment phase with only str maintenece, since i’m never really lifting fresh, or doing PRs as you suggest…
Do you think i should use the above workout as a “speed phase, Str maintence phase” for say 3 weeks, then after 3 weeks shift more to a Strength phase such as this:
mon- sprints/upper lifting (conjugate method)
tues-tempo
wed-off
thurs-lower (conjugate method) +tempo
fri-tempo
sat- plyos +full body RE day
sun off
OR
how bad would it be if i kept my initial routine the same except i take out lifting on one my sprint days (maybe do some low/intensty low/vol auxialry work) and make saturday a heavy lfiting day:
ex:
MON- sprints/weights
warm ups.
sprints: 1x10, 2x20, 2x30, 5x40, 2x60 yards
Weights:
single leg hypers: 3x10
bench variation: 4x5
core: 3x10 of whatever ab exersise
TUES: tempo
WED: off
THURS: sprints/weights
warm ups.
sprints: same as mon.
weights:
bul. split squats 3x8 (each leg)
nat. GHR 3xwhatever i can manage
pull ups, 3x5
abs, 3x10 of whatever ab exersise
Fri: tempo
sat:
squat/dead variation (alternate every 3 weeks)
work up to a 3 rep PR, then 3x5
RDl or split sqs (3x8)
bench variation (1x3, 3x5)
core
then do some tempo/conditioning
Sun- Off
Another person stuck in the westside mindset. No, you don’t need to go after 1rm/3rm prs every week for success or to develop strength. It is one way, but if you have read any material from CF (or around this site for that matter) or anywhere else, you’ll see MOST track and football programs do not do this and I don’t know of any successful track programs that consistently go for 1-3rm. If you really want to test and find it necessary for progression, do 3 weeks of training and test a 3rm the 4th week.
You are not going to get very strong doing single leg hypers and natural ghr for low reps. Get your squats or deadlifts 2-3x a week with pressing and pulling movements as well. The whole point of the high/low system is that you put all high intensity elements (sprinting AND lifting) on the same day. No need to worry about taxing your CNS too much with only 2-3 days of heavy lifting when you aren’t moving over 300lbs on deadlift of 200lbs on bench. It is possible to do too much and I do a lot less volume than some, but you aren’t going to get the results you want doing this. Buy CFTS (better yet, buy the GPP DVD as it will have a plan laid out for you) and start reading up. Go back to the older strength and sprint threads (like 20 pages back) and read everything you can get your hands on. Read journals, etc.
the whole post was gold but thats the best part of it right there.
I bought the forum review and the CFTS manuel but other than that I’ve gone from semi half informed track athelte to being pretty knowledgable about S&C, track training(specfically sprint training) just from reading the boards. At this point in time i can actually contribute some points of merit in site discussions. Even though my intrest has begun to switch from short sprints with an occasional foray at 400m to long sprints and mid distance i still find the forum an invaluable read. I’ve gone from not knowing the difference between speed, speed endurance and tempo to knowing at least as much if not more than my school coaches at least when it comes to sprint training and track history…all within about a year.
hopefully in the future i’ll have some more worthy track exploits(i.e. HS ntls apperance(s)) to share with ya’ll and i can thank CF.com for putting me in the right direction when it comes to Hi vs low training intensities and the dead zone of the middle ground between 75-95%
ok so from your post, i think that you beleive my inital routine was better… namely:
MON- sprints/weights
warm ups.
sprints: 1x10, 2x20, 2x30, 5x40, 2x60 yards
Weights: squats variation: 1x3, 4x5
RDls 3x8
single leg hypers: 3x10
bench variation: 4x5
core: 3x10 of whatever ab exersise
TUES: tempo
WED: off
THURS: sprints/weights
warm ups.
sprints: same as mon.
weights: dead variation 1x3, 3x5
bul. split squats 3x8 (each leg)
nat. GHR 3xwhatever i can manage
overhead press or inc. press, 3x5
pull ups, 3x5
abs, 3x10 of whatever ab exersise
Fri: tempo
sat: …
Sun- Off
So a few final Q’s (sorry for so many)…
i will take your advice and keep sat as low intesity day, and do another tempo session. But i was wondering, if after a few weeks i could add another hi day on sat… either sprint day, a plyo day, or a weights day.?
Do you think this routine can be a long term thing (given that i back off every fifth week or so, and increase volumes from sprints, change exersises etc)?
And finally, I will stray away from the westside mentality and not go for 3rms regularly. But how hard should i be pushing on my sets? would one-two reps shy of failure suffice for all exersises, or should it be even less?
ps.
I’ve already read CFTS, but i don’t see how to apply it to myself, since the samples given in the book are eltie sprinters who have access to EMS and daily massages etc… gpp has been ordered but its pending.
Thanks you, and sorry for being such a nag. Just curious though… are you a college student?
I don’t get the obsession with adding another day of just plyos or weights. Get your volume up and do this plan and see how it goes. If you continue to get results, then you’re fine. I still don’t think you need to do 1 set of 3 each freakin workout and try to hit a new max. It really is not needed at all, but whatever, one ear out the other. If you are tolerating this and making great gains, stick with it and once it starts to slow, then consider doing 3 HI days.
Do you think this routine can be a long term thing (given that i back off every fifth week or so, and increase volumes from sprints, change exersises etc)?
No real need to change exercises here, at least at this point. Just change intensities and volumes for now.
And finally, I will stray away from the westside mentality and not go for 3rms regularly. But how hard should i be pushing on my sets? would one-two reps shy of failure suffice for all exersises, or should it be even less?
Always 1-2 reps left in the tank. You can vary the structure, but maintain similar volumes. Maybe 6x4 or 3x7 insted of 4x5, change it up, but again, no need to get fancy yet.
I’ve already read CFTS, but i don’t see how to apply it to myself, since the samples given in the book are eltie sprinters who have access to EMS and daily massages etc… gpp has been ordered but its pending.
It’s not the exact stuff, it is the organization of training. Maybe you can only tolerate 75% or even 50% of the volumes, but it doesn’t matter if you aren’t doing the training really in the first place. 1 arm push-ups, soy, and low low volume on already very light lifts aren’t going to get you where you want to be.
Thanks you, and sorry for being such a nag. Just curious though… are you a college student?
yep
Omyss stop making excuses USE YOUR HEAD. You are obviously training incorrectly.
Many are in a similar position to you- draw the same conclusion. Did nobody ever think: er… maybe we’re doing something wrong 
For you to succeed keep it simple simple simple. Frustrated people, ones who won’t conceed they’re wrong that is (not you) want nothing more than to drag you down with em’ and convince you can’t improve and the ones who do are ‘simply gifted’.
As great as these boards are I blame the conflict of opinions for negatively affecting newbies. Even if they might be wrong it’s good to listen to people who speak with some degree of certainty and who have the balls to set something in stone, rather than leave it up in the air. Then make up your own mind. 
For posts like this read: Charlie, Svensson, David W, Power and… SeanJos.
SeanJos
Maybe he should be doing HIT training… boost the hypertrophy and strength only a couple days a week with minimal training…
Haven’t even read the thread. Just hate seeing concepts be oversimplified. Using myself as an example, in high school I was a sub 4:30-miler, sub 14:30 3-miler, and placed 41st in the National Cross Country Championships my junior year. I now have a 36" standing vertical jump and a 41" approach (3-step) jump. I’ve always been athletic but trained for football in high school by running 5 miles a day and then I would wonder why my forty and vert sucked. Training poorly is not a life sentence. If you work hard enough, long enough, you can go pretty damn far even with shit genetics.
you really can, and the t hing is you dont know what kinda of genetics you have. is your ability from god or from hardwork. people ask all these qestuons about fast twtich this and that but unless your gunna have a biopsy done its a moot point. even then it wont tell you your potential. you may have a crappy vert and be genetically full of fast twitch fibers. skill, ability, athleticism is more than just a singel factor. thats why you can genetically engineer a person with all the fast twtich mucsle you want and they still may not be better than a person who has less than ideal genetics. there are just too many factors. and our scientific ability is not able to account for all of them. the day that we can is the day that competition ends because we will already kno the outcome of every event, and every sport. the basis of competition is that you dont kno the outcome thats why you show up to the track, thats why you train.
lets not start a flame war with him but i am in your corner. HIT all the way for sprints.
uhh… right, i can’t tell if your’re being sarcastic or not…
anyways i’ve got a couple of concerns:
in CFTS pg. 109, it says:
“when we combine speed training at weights on the same day, the quality is kept high, but the volume must be kept low”
now i don’t know if my routine which has 4x5, 3x8 etc reps schemes fits into this description.
My impression from reading the book is that “high quality, low volume” would be work done in the 90-95% of a 1rm or 3rm or 5rm, and done for low volume… ie 3x3, 2x5 or something… this kinda confused me…
another quote: “it is recommened that 4-5 hours rest is scheduled betweeen 2 workouts that occur on the same day in order to maximize recovery.”
is he reffering to speed/weights days? this is confusing me because i thought it was better to lift right after sprints…
That IS low volume. You have 2 heavy exercises (relative) and the others are auxiliary. That is low volume.
Check out the GPP dvd is you need to see examples of stuff that is really high volume.
what’s your take on the 2nd quote?
lol I don’t know your situation and I am very far from an expert myself. For me, lifting right after is easiest because it takes less overall time out of my day and I don’t need to do a second warm-up or need to manage my workout nutrition around 2 workouts. Others do 2 workouts because you’ll have more energy a lot of times for the 2nd one than you would if you did it right after and may let you tolerate more volume.
Of course, there is also the fact 2 workouts give you less recovery until the next high intensity workout (if you sprint in the morning and lift in the evening, you won’t have 48hrs between HI sessions).
You are taking exact stuff and making it way too strict. Look at things as an entire concept and then apply it. Don’t take one thing from here and another from there and try to put it all together without knowing what the intent was in the first place.