genetic limitations

Track & Field 100m
1

i really dont know where to puth this thread, as it is more general than 100m specific. So if you want to move it go ahaid.

my question is this though.

lets asume a completely untrained individual. A former couch potato if you will. He at some point, starts to train for the 100/200m sprint.

initial time mid 13 mid 27.

what is his potential?

what im basicaly asking is at wich point onwards genetics start to factor in. Most people after training can bench say 90kgr. So what is the same general “limit” for sprint times?

would most people be able to run a 12 something given proper training?

obviously im asking for my self, before any bashing begins (:P) i must say that i sprint recreationaly, im too old and have too heavy a backround to have delusions about seriously competing.

thanx:)

2

I am sure you could get to 12.x or slightly below given a couple of years, barring no serious injuries or complications. The biggest thing would obviously be getting in shape, which would probably shave a good amount of time off, along with increasing speed. At 27, the biggest problem I would see is staying healthy, so one would need a good recovery plan and therapy program most likely. This would be especially true if there has not been a GPP developed through the younger and teenage years.

3

Man I have an uncle that is 51 and I have seen him run 11’s in the 100 meters. It may take him a couple months to recover but he understands he isnt young anymore.

4

lol shit, no im not 27 mate, im 22:p

27 is my 200m time:p

well thats kind of reasuring, i mean the notion that i could get as low as twelves…

im not in terible shape, though i was obese and muscle less so i need some body building work (actually i did that) now i am 1.80 81kg at 10%bf, im going for 76 and something like 6-7% bf, we will see how that goes though. I am kind of week still, i bench 75kg 4 reps, squat (full squat) 80kgr 6 reps (yea that needs some work), i hang clean 60kgr 5 reps (lol) and dead lift 110kgr 2 reps. Thats prety much it. Make no mistake i have made grate gains, when i first dead lifted it was 20kgr:P Thats less than 8 months ago

strange thing is, my coach probably sucks major ass, she has five other mates, been training for years and years, non of whom manages something below 11.30.

shit i so need to train on my own, ill miss the girls though;)

on a sidenote, CF says (and it is kind of obvious when you graps the basics of CNS training) that the first years of training the volume sould be higher to compensate somewhat for the lack of proper intencity.

how is that larger volume reflected in actuall training?
perhaps the tempo-recovery days could be instead of three/week only two?

currently my training is something like this (criticise if you may)

monday
speed work (2x4x20m 2/5min recovery) AND some form of special endurance, say 150-200m@95% + weights after that

tuesday
intervals, as in 3x4x200m@80% with 3/7 min recovery. i really really dont like these, they get me very tence and tire me but what you gonna do

wednesday
plyos (mostly horisontal in nature (is that the proper name?) ya know jumping over obstacles or what their name is) + weights

thursday
most of the time recovery in the form of 30min jogs. Truth be told, from a sprinting standpoint tempo work would be best, but due to the lack of grass and for whatever reasons those jogs help recover quite a lot, in fact more than the large CF tempos, i guess its because im a beginer?

friday
this training majorly sucks ass. We do standing jumps into the long jump pit (10) then we do one leged jumps(6 on each leg) then we do those idiotic fucking drills, i really dont know their english name, its like doing lunges but jumping over a distance of 60-80 m. Do you know what i mean? I so cant do them properly! and some times explosive med balls

suturday
same as monday

if i where me, i wouldn make a program like that though:P

5

That’s what I thought, I was slightly confused about college at 27 and all lol.

27 as a 200m isn’t that bad. I ran 27.1 hand last year for my first 200 and finished up the season at 23.9FAT.

6

I dont think it would take you “years” to get your 100m time in the 12s as that other guy said.(you must put the effort in, otherwise he’s right) I honestly think within one year of good training you could easily be in the low 12s. Getting into the 11s is definately attainable to you.

My ultimate goal is to get in the 10s, I hope I get it one day :slight_smile:

7

Keep tempo three times per week, or two with the third rest, not more track work.

Have longer recoveries in the accel/speed drills.

Try and have the 95% 150s on a separate day.

Tuesday’s intervals are rather hard not because it’s you, but because they are at a higher intensity than they should be; keep it at 75% MAXIMUM -I understand the lack of grass, so be careful of your recovery!

Based on the above, I suppose Thursday’s session should be ok, if of tempo-nature vs. the 30 min continuous run.

Try and take it easy on Friday, so you can have a proper speed work on Saturday -although Monday/Saturday doesn’t work best, bearing in mind the other two Plyo session of the week…

If you can train on your own and have no problem with the place/people there and have the motivation to do so, do it!

All the best, Epote!

8

nikolousky:

tell me about it. this is the program my coatch uses.

i am aware of the 3/week tempo and the “no more than 75%” rule. But i really cant force it to her:p i sould probably work out alone, but i tend to overtrain when doing so:p

in any case, this program is my modified one, the program the other athletes do is the same, with the exception that they have weights only twice a week with NO track work on the weight days

take a load of a weight day for a 11.34 athlete. Leg extention 3x10, leg curl 3x10, calf raises on the squat rack with barbell on soulders 3x10 (dont even get me started why this is of no use what so ever), 1/4 squats (yeah thats right) 3x10, bench 3x10, lat pulldown 3x10.

i mean, oh my god! whatever though. Its obvious i need to split, time will tell for the time being i kind of force my trainings. Say the 80% runs i tend to do them below that for recovery reasons, i choose one day to focus on the max 150 and one on the max accels etc

though if you may answer, the higher training volume for beginers how is reflected in the CF training system?

9

I see! I guess some people are just nuts! 3x10 then it is!
Just do your best under the circumstances!

Shifting focus, even per week, is also good, if you feel like it; keeps some quality there by protecting your self the rest of the week.

Not sure what you mean by your question; it might be true that a novice can afford to do more volume, as he can’t stress his system as much, but this shouldn’t take you to the other extreme, as quality will suffer!

There is “more room” for a “mistake” ( :eek: ) with a novice perhaps -with this being the situation for racing, too, just have a few races without getting obsessed with peaking as such- and maybe higher volumes could “protect” you until you have some good specific background; if you are working on accel and top speed though, I can’t see the point of more volume with decreasing times as session progresses, not good introductory lesson, IMO.

Lastly, tempo can be increased at initial stages -as this doesn’t affect much, if at all, track work quality- but again I wouldn’t make this the sole training goal. It would be good, for example, to have your highest volume before shifting your focus on (top) speed work.

Hope these help!

10

I see! I guess some people are just nuts! 3x10 then it is!

nah, im doing my own weights, screw them:P

Not sure what you mean by your question; it might be true that a novice can afford to do more volume, as he can’t stress his system as much, but this shouldn’t take you to the other extreme, as quality will suffer!

there is a diagram in the GPP dvd and the forum review that shows tha the first years of training the volume is relatively high while it drops later on. And i was wondering what that increased volume is. Say an elite would do 2x4x20m for his speed session whereas a beginer would do 3x4x20m? Is it perhaps the recovery time? a beginer needs 2mins/rep and an elite say 5?

thanx for the help

11

I can see your point long-term with quality being of paramount importance at the highest level, but in any case the volume that any athlete can tolerate will be dictated mainly by proper form and times -depending on session. You may have any session on paper, but always be prepared to adjust things. Can you see an advantage in trying to have a somewhat larger volume, but with performance dropping at the same time? If speed is the subject here, that is. Again, let’s just say that there is more room for “error” with a beginner, but this can’t/shouldn’t go on for very long…

In either case though, play it safe and have longer rather than shorter recoveries -as an example, 2 min for this number of 20s is not long enough; start with 4 min perhaps… You should see the difference in your times.

Hope it answers your Q to some extend.
Others?

12

Hey Epote,
Just look at donovan bailey. Here is a guy that spent about 3 or 4 years away from the sport (which he really didn’t even put much effort into because he was a basketball player). Then comes back and within 5 years he’s the 100m world champion. I’m not sure what your ambition with the sport is but in my world anything is possible.

13

Going back to the original post…I think most peoples’ genetic potential is better than they think.

In my opinion, in 100 years we will look back upon the training we do today and think it is foolish. My philosophy is that if you had a coach that knew EVERYTHING (like God) you could be world ranked as long as you had the slightest genetic potential for your event.

I believe that if someone tells you that you can never run a good time, then they just are not educated enough to help you succeed.

14

let me get this straight. you’re a former couch potato with very little training done and you did those times straight off one of your first runs?

Mate they’re great times! i’ve been training hard for ages (only really started sprint training about 2 months ago but been extremely active for yrs) and i can only do 13 flat and 27.5

You’re obviously far better than me genetically! Id absolutely love to meet a good coach and help me along because there must be something wrong.
Or else im just doomed to be plain slow all my life, which i think is the case.
i mean im 12% BF @ 183lbs and squat 150kg ass to grass for reps, hang clean 80kg and still my absolute best 40 is 5.2secs.

i think im just a disgrace genetically

15

well before i started sprinting i had 6 months of weights and cardio in the form of bicycles and stuff

though i still cant squat 150kgr:p more like 95:D My times improved, im at 12.5 and 26.8 now

16

this topic has always interested me regarding my own potential.

I remember reading Bob Kennedy saying the average young, healthy, untrained male could run the 100m in 15-17. And, with ten years of hard work you could cut 5 seconds off that.

I know he’s a distance guy, but he was world class and prolly knew a bit about running.

My goal is to beat 12.3, which is what my ex-girlfriend ran. :wink:

17

Lets say you are at 12% bodyfat. And you Weigh 200 lbs. You have got 24 pounds of blubber to carry around. How are you ever going to be able to run really fast? Then consider that your maximum strength is only at around 200 lbs. max squat. And maybe 180 lbs in the bench. So you take some steroids, GH, Insulin, EPO and a few stimulants. You take a bunch of supplements and you work with a biomechanics expert. You use the steroids and you get your strength levels up; your bench gets up to 400 lbs max, and your squat gets up to 500 max. You get your bodyfat % down to 2-3% bodyfat. Then, and only then can you know what your true potential is.

I would say that the average untrained male (college age) can run the 40 yard dash in 5.0. With the things I am saying I truly believe they could get to 4.49 or faster within 12 months on average, if they truly are running a 5.0 to start.

18

No way. More like 5.5 for people who aren’t out of shape. 500lb squat is not nearly as impressive as a 400lb bench. What is the point though? 4.49 isn’t something incredible. What about sub 10, sub 20, and sub 44? How limiting are genetics for something INCREDIBLE?

19

May I remind you guys about the rules of the board, no discussion whatsoever about banned substances.

Only legal training subjects here on CF.com

20

Well quite frankly my point is this;

How much speed can an athlete who is lifetime drug free get if he has extreme strength and quickness naturally and already has good speed i.e. a -10.39 100M FAT. Keep in mind that he is capable of squatting 630 and benching 410 at a bodyweight of 173 at 3% bodyfat and is 5-7 tall. He is capable of a 2.86 20M dash.

I would think that if he did the drugs (every drug he can ‘safely’ administer) He could get his squat to over 1000 (yes, 1,000 lbs.) and his bench would go to over 750 at a bodyweight of 185-195. Now here is the question; Since he would have insane strength, and already had insane quickness to begin with, wouldn’t he get a much greater benefit from the drugs then an athlete with less natural quickness, speed, and strength would normally get from the drugs? Because if somebody is insanely quick they have more receptor sites then somebody who isn’t quick and therefor they would be able to absorb more Androgens in their receptor cells, and therefore they would respond better to the drugs, and combine that with the freakish strength, and then you would really have something. (and I am talking about GH, Insulin, Roids, and stimulants, and possibly other drugs)

Also; how much speed and strength improvments can a person normally get from unlimited drug use and training full time over a year? Lets say they just trained for strength? (I can’t get an honest answer from the roid heads at my gym)

We all know the reality of this situation, I am not against anyones choices to use or not use.

Someone PLEASE tell me, I NEED to know.