Is good for improvening maximal strength of bench Oress?How?
Floor presses improve finish and build triceps strength. A better alternative however, IMHO opinion, are board presses. With board presses, you can use more weight than you could normally handle in a full bench press. If your max is, for example, 300lbs. in a normal, strict bench, you might start withā¦
Wk1 - 3x3 330 w/3boards
Wk2 - 3x3 325 w/2boards
Wk3 - 3x2 315 w/1board
Wk4 - New 1RM 310 w/no boards
There is also a definite psychological benefit in that once an athlete has pressed a weight for reps from an inch or so above their chest (in the above example 315), they feel confident that if they can just accelerate the bar (now only loaded with 310) off of their chest to a height of two inches, they definitely have what it takes to finish the press, as it is something they have already done. Another psychological benefit is that quite often when an athlete attempts a new 1RM, it is the first time he/she has held that much weight, and it usually feels like a ton. After doing board presses with a weight 40 or more pounds heavier than his/her 1RM, the bar does not feel overly heavy when they take it from the rack for their 1RM attempt because they have held, and worked with, much heavier weight in the preceding weeks.
The first time I broke 400lbs. I was amazed how light it felt, even though the lift was not easy. But, I had been doing three board presses with up to 475lbs., so the bar felt very light, giving me a solid mental boost. A few weeks later I was doing three boards with 500lbs and did a 1RM of 425. The 425 did not feel excessively heavy even though the lift was literally at my limit of strength. I donāt know about others, but I definitely canāt do more in the floor press than I can in the regular bench, so this advantage would be lost.
In my thirty years of doing bench presses, I have never come across a tool or system that has helped me more with respect to bench press. Most others that I have introduced to board presses have felt the same way, and now incorporate them into their workouts on a regular basis.
Just food for thought.
Star,
Do you think the boxes can have the same effect for squats?
I.e., is there the same benefit relationship between the box squat and the squat as there is between the board presses and the bench presses? What is your experience?
Thanks.
Ok, I know Iām not Star, but -
We use floor presses (and board presses) as well.
As for the squat, Iāve chosen to use the āstop squatā to barbell catches rather than the box squat, but the idea is the same. For the non-elite athlete, the transfer to the regular squat has been tremendous for our guys. (not to mention the question of squat depth - I set the barbell cathces up below parallel
Yes, but it does not seem to transfer as well as board presses. Itās one thing to bench 50lbs. over your 1RM to a 3ā board; itās another thing entirely to squat 50lbs. over your 1RM, even to a box 4ā above parallel. We do, however, routinely change the height of the box. We do this by building a box that is about 4 inches below parallel for the shorter guys. We then add hard pieces of half inch plywood sandwiched with rubber mats/pads to reduce slippage. Because some really like to use bands, both from the top and from the bottom, and others really like chains, and some like both, and because we have a couple of bars to choose from (standard, safety) there is an incredible amount of variety that can be added to the squat workout.
Most of the power lifters I work with prefer to use bands to rev up the intensity. Using the bands from the top makes the bar lighter as you descend. Depending on which color bands you use, how you attach them, and how long your stroke is, there can be over a 200lb. difference between the weight at the top vs. the weight when you sit on the box. This gives you a similar affect to the board bench presses. For example, if your box squat 1RM is 315, you can load 405 on the bar and adjust the bands so that when you touch at the bottom, you are only pushing around 305, but as you finish, you are pushing the full 405. This gives you the psychological edge, because when you attempt say 325, it will feel light when you get under it, because youāve worked with a much heavier bar. Your finish will be much, much stronger as well.
Other lifters like to attach the bands to the floor. You load close to your 1RM, and as you rise the bands begin to pull. At the top you will be pushing against your 1RM plus a bunch. I donāt like bands from below, they are a *$^@!.
One final noteā¦the power lifters who use bands a lot began feeling that they were having trouble with balance and controlling the load when free squatting, because the bands provide quite a bit of stability. Their solution was to add heavy chains in combination with the bands. The chains make you work to maintain balance, and since then there have been no issues with balance or bar control when free squatting. We have a 22y.o. at 198 who is squatting over 700 in meets. We also have a 19y.o. and another 22y.o, both at 260, and both looking 800 in the face. All are drug free and lift with single ply poly only. They are all high school buddies who have been lifting together for a few years, and if they have one piece of advice for those wanting to improve their Max Effort squat, it would be to box squat with bands.
Hope that helps.
Devils and Star,
Thank you for your replies.
Devils, I didnāt understand your method, please expand on it.
Star, very interesting post; I have only the green bands from EliteFts, do you know more or less how many lbs they take off according to the stretch? I can 1/4 squat for three reps 120lbs more than what I can squat āIPF styleā for one rep, what do you think if I use the pins of the rack to progressively increase the ROM of the 1/4 squat load while simultaneously work just a pin above āthe holeā with a weight slightly above my competitive max?
Thanks.
That can work, but if you use this method in a 4 week wave/cycle, you are really neglecting the hams/glutes for at least two, maybe three of those weeks. I like the full range every workout (at least to parallel) using the bands much better.
As far as how much help the bands provide, they are all slightly different, and of course one of the main factors is your stroke. An easy method to determine how much load bands from the top carry is as followsā¦
- Mark the height of the bar when you are in the full upright position, and again when you are seated on the box.
- Arrange the bands so that they just almost go slack at the top of your lift.
- Put an unloaded bar in the bands and see how far they stretch. At this point they are providing 45lbs of lift.
- Slowly and carefully add weight to the suspended bar until the bar reaches the mark you made for the bar in the seated postion. Whatever is on the bar is how much weight is being carried by the bands at the bottom of your squat. I assume the pull varies linearly from about 0 at the top to whatever you measure at the bottom, so halfway through the squat it will be pulling with a force of about half of what you measured at the bottom.
- Experiment with different attachment heights, and also experiment with doubling the bands over (looping both ends over the bar after passing over an upper support.
Hope this helps.
Star,
Thank you for your comment, much appreciated.
Sprinter
First, hereās the example:
Example:
Week 1
Stop Squat -(squating to bar catches, height at slightly below parallel, athlete comes to a complete stop on catches, then stands up)
6x5, working up to 85% of 1 rm for at least 3 of the sets
Week 2 - 6x3, working up to 92% of 1 rm for at least 3 sets - if they get the weight for last set written on card, they can take a heavier ābonusā set
Week 3 - working up to 6 heavy singles, at 100%+ for the last ones. (total volume will be about 12-20 reps, though, counting all reps) Many will break their old ārecordā on the card, and I will reset their max numbers for the next time we do the exercise.
Week 4-6 we repeat the same set up, but we change the lift to an actual back squat.
The set up:
Use a power rack that has adjustable arms. Set these arms so that when the athlete preforms a squat, the arms of the rack stop the athlete when he is 1-2 inches below parallel.
The athlete squats down, maintaining proper position. When the bar gets to the adjustable arms, he pauses for a second, then stands up.
Why? My experience has led to:
- The athlete gets more ācomfortableā in the bottom position of the squat. He feels what itās like down there. (Remember, I would not qualify the athletes as elite!)
- Momentum of squatting down has been eliminated. To paraphrase Louie Simons, āstatic overcome by dynamicā.
When we change training blocks, and the stop squat is replaced by the actual back squat. My athletes get a big boost from the previous 3-4 week period of training, and they tend to squat with more weight - and more efficiently - than they could before. For the more qualified athlete, this may or may not work as well.
For the low-mid level college athlete, the results have been fabulous.
I hope this explanation has been better!
Good stuff guys, Devils elsewhere on a similar topic you posted the following
[i]
Yes, we do other leg work.
In a sample 4x week workout, weāll have a āmax effortā or āstrength effortā day like that with a lower body emphasis ( I use the word emphasis because itās not only a ālegā day) 1x week, and an upper body emphasis 1x week. At least one of the other two days will also include leg work, but with a different emphasis.
In addition, thereās usually a total body lift in every session.
If weāre on a 3 day split, the work is distributed a little differently, but the concepts remain the sameā¦[/i]
would you mind giving an outline of a 3 day split?
John
Hereās an overview of a 3 day split, for menās basketball during the 6 week period between the start of school and oct 15th, when they can start practice:
Day1
Dynamic warmup is assumed. They do this as a team before each running session, so they are expected to do it prior to strength training as well, but itās not monitiored - Iām a 1.5 man show)
Pre-train/warmup (4-5 movement prep/warmup activities, done unloaded or only with barbell)
Main session:
Max effort stop squat 6-7 x5 up to 85% 1 rm, (becomes back squat weeks 4-6)
Step ups 5x3/leg
Glute ham raise 5x6
Any bicep
Close grip pull up
Post training:
ab circuit #1
one leg toe touches
hip/shoulder complex (planks)
This is the basic outline. The sets/reps change by week, alternating between training zonesā¦
The āmax effortā lifts go on the 5-3-1 cycle Iāve described elsewhere on the forum (I think you mentioned this)
Day 2
Pretrain/warmup
Main train:
Clean pull to knee 6x3
Jerk 8x2
close grip bench 3x5
T-bar row 5x6
Post train:
ab circuit#2
lat pulldown
inchworms
Day 3
Pre train/warmup
Main train:
Max effort floor press 6-7x5 (becomes flat bench weeks 4-6)
Incline bench 5x3
skull crusher 5x5
D.B. shoulder - choice 3x10
pull ups 3x8
Post training
ab circuit #3
snatch press + overhead squat (barbell only)
This is a real quick outline. Perhaps, if thereās interest, I can go more in depth, but Iām afraid of boring everyone to tears!
PS - these are NCAA division 3 athletes, of differing abilities. We will change these routines vastly during the year, and will lift 2x/week in season, and 4x during the summer.
Devils,
Thank you for your post, I understood perfectly.
I started preparing a PL meet while waiting to start the preparation for the indoors (Master).
I use a lot the āreversal strengthā in my PL squats; as the meet is pretty near, I think stop squats at legal depth would not be helpful at this stage, because it would mean lowering the competition weight and using a different lifting pattern.
The propedeutical use of the stop squat for not so āstrength experiencedā athlete is interesting, though.
all good stuff thanks
what are the advantages and disadvantages of using the floor press instead of the rack lockout and vice versa ?
Sorry Davids I just saw you post. The answer is not straigth forward, because it depends very much on your chest thickness and limb length.
The people I know that really like floor presses are thick chested, short armed power lifters. When in the bottom position the bar is nearly touching their chest. Floor presses for these guys simulates the pause performed in a PL meet and you donāt have to release the weight to hold the long pause. In a rack press, the weight is taken entirely off your hands and you have to press against a dead weight. I like rack presses because they are safer, but I like board presses better than either of the two above, as do most PLs I know.