Scarface I agree thats why I stressed that this is my opinion not an absolute truth. Also to learn information from other people you have to listen to their ideas,theories and agreements and disagreements. Which will almost always be somewhat different especially in a large forumn like this. Thats what makes life fun that not everyone is the same. What kind of forumn would this be if we all had the exact same ideas and no one disagreed. Have fun with it. The key is to not let this disrupt the learning process.
Good point. I take that back. This is not a fact it is just my opinion. Also dazed I agree Tom Tellez is certainly no ordinary coach. Also to further my opinion on this subject Charlie altered his programs to fit the needs of his athletes which in my opinion he was on a level of his own. As in cfts and speedtrap he referred to how some of his athletes had a high tolerance for longer speedwork/speed endurance work while some who had a high tolerance for short power work.
Originally posted by DMA
Yes I agree that Tim has to prove himself - but my point is he has the world record, Ben could of run faster but didn’t. In that case 9.78 is better 9.79By fastest do we mean the record holder or the fastest split or is it some other means.
Carl was a great athlete, but I lost respect for him when he wasn’t selected for the relay and felt he should of.
How do you recognise the speed of Jesse Owens, Bob Hayes and others when they raced on different tracks.
By fastest I think we mean a combination of fastest splits and:
Who had the highest CAPACITY for a fast race in a race that ideally tests the acceleration and top end speed of the fastest runners(throw in a little reaction time and a little speed endurance aswell.)
The 100m tests these in ideallystic proportions (not say, the 40yard dash, or 200m ) and Ben really wins big here.
It shouldn’t be about who holds the world record becuase of differant altitude levals, track surfaces, wind measurements, temperature etc. stick me on the moon, strap a missile to my back from a horizontal launch pad and I’ll smash the record to peices. Of course, Tim may improve last summers performace capacity even if he doesn’t break his current world record this year.
There is no possible means to show that Carl would run faster with me, or any reason to think he might. He had an excellent program for him, specifically, and it was repeatable for others of his body-type.
Dazed I understand but I was also referring to bens supplement program. Also Carl would run faster with Charlie this is just a fact. Mj carl and me would all run faster with Charlie for that matter. I agree that you have to find a certain recipe for the athlete but charlie has better tastier recipes then tellez even for carl.
I think that mentally Ben would have intimidated most of the guys mentioned…although I don’t know much about Mr. Hayes’ personality. My suspicion is that Bob Hayes was pretty tough…but it has been documented that Ben made Carl fudge his pants and I can certainly see Ben making Mo and Tim quake in their spikes…
Ben didn’t seem to even try to imtimidate his opponents. His rep + presance at the start line was so apparent, that they’d be intimidated anyway. As opposed to Mo Green who does his neck rolling, strutting boxer impersonation thing. Mo really tries to intimidate the opposition sometimes, it may work on some, but a really cool person at the same leval, it would only make them more confidant. Linford has said that even though Mo Green is great, he’s not really that confidant in his own ability (for an olympic champ.)
Plus, as Michael Jordan has said: “The intimidater can be intimidated.”
Yeah, I’m with you on the Mo thing: tongue, neck rolls, etc. Seems to me to be an act to cover up an insecurity…which is odd because he does not need to be insecure regarding his sprinting ability.
I guess the whole intimidation thing comes down to whether or not it is part of the sport or not?
If you win fast by ‘whatever it takes’ does that devalue your win or time?
Almost every successful athlete has been subject to and used intimidation or physocological tricks.
Linford did it, Tim does it, Micheal Johnson did it …
Is it right - no
Is it fair - no
Does it matter if you run fastest and are the fastest - no
Originally posted by xlr8
I have often found that the “geniuses” in any endeavor have a way of making the complex simple while the pretenders tend to make the simple things complex.xlr8
AMEN!
In this day and age of nobody taking blame and everybody wanting credit, Charlie doesn’t play that game. Some coaches bash everybody else’s technique, while promoting themselves. Business is business, but at the end of the day, we all have to look in the mirror. I applaud Charlie for being a straight shooter in a industry that can be so much B.S.
Well said ideal.
No. 23
You mention is it right to use intimation or is it fair - you said NO
As a side note to that in South Africa last week in the world cup cricket an Australian walked after being not out.
The debate in Australia is/was it the right thing to do. People say it showed good sportsmanship.
Do I think he should of walked at the biggest event for cricket - NO
Would I say I broke or fouled a throw in my major comp - NO
Intimatation is a weapon anybodies system.
Ben didn’t need to do it persa because he probably freaked most competitors anyway with his presence.
Carls the man but maybe not the fastest 100m ever. Imagine if charlie had trained him though.
Horses for courses.
I think Charlie is a brilliant coach, however you must realize that different athletes respond to different things. Do you think Carl, Ben, Maurice and MJ would all benefit from the same types of training? No, they wouldn’t.
Charlie and Ben went together like milk and cookies. MJ and Clyde Hart the same. However these two supreme athletes had completely different work out regimens.
Please keep things in perspective. It’s not like Tom Tellez is an ordinary coach now is it?
No one formula suits all, and, while there are some universal training principles, you must judge each training approach for its results. The whole point of this forum is to share experiences, so all the members of the forum can draw on these different experiences to help formulate and/or advance their own training approach.
Originally posted by Charlie Francis
TJ2K
Are we to judge times based on running starts now? The “formula” you describe was invented by Americans to try to take the Worlds Fastest Human title away from the obvious candidate at the time- who just happened to be a Canadian. Of course, once an American was winning the 100m again, that formula was put back in the closet for the next time the wrong guy wins.
Well I wouldn’t say it was a deliberate attempt by Americans to trivialize the accomplishments of a Canadian… it was just some ignorant American sportscasters who didn’t know anything about track talking about it with a lot of people listening.
Hey nobody mentioned Obadele Thompson. If we are talkingabout fastest outright its him. I know he had a massive tailwind behind him but there have been huge tailwinds in other races and no 9.69’s. We can all say that Ben would probablyhave run 9.59 under the same conditions (how good would that have been!!) but the fact is 9.69 is the fastest time for a 100m. Maybe I am biased… my fastest time is 10.46w with a massive tail…
charlie has been hinting at this for awhile, but i’m gonna say it. tim montgomery is just scratching the surface of his potential. i think in 2 to 3 years he is gonna be running some insane times.
Ben will always be my favorite, greatest of not. A lot of Ben’s success has to do with Charlie and his understanding of training. It would be scary to think what someone with Bob Hayes’ natural ability could have accomplished with someone like Charlie as his coach. As far as Lewis goes, I don’t care for the man but he was indeed very fast. What could have he done in the 200? How about the drug use issue that popped up today with him. I hope in the end, Ben is vindicated. And Charlie.