F-V curve questions

  1. The further apart two H.I elements are, the less the conflict between them ?

  2. The further to the right a H.I stimulus is, the hypertrophy response gets more pronounced, and the more to the left a H.I stimulus is, neural adaptations predominate (so as to allow the organism to produce great ground reaction forces in ever shorter contact times, eg.speed )?

  3. The more you spread your CNS energy in the F-V curve, the weaker you appear to be in each one of them , until the final taper? but you improve the most, where most of your CNS output goes?

  4. Progress in ONE H.I stimulus in the F-V curve, whichever that is, while trying to maintain the other or minimize the strength reduction, implies a rise in organism strength?

  5. Are there people that express their “output” better in one side of the curve than the other?

  6. Speed works affects max strength more than max strength affects speeds?

Charlie?

I don’t know the answers for all of your questions but I will answer the ones I know.

  1. For number one what you said is probably true. From what I understand, this is part of why Charlie chooses to use sprints to take care of the velocity side of things and weights to cover the force part of the curve.(there are probably other and maybe even more important benefits as well from using the combination of weights and sprints to cover high elements but from a F/V curve standpoint what you said is correct.)

2)For number two this is not necessarily true. Neurological adaptions happen at all points of the curve although obviously they are different adaptions(Max Strength vs. Rate of force development). Hypertrophy seems to be dependent upon some combination of force and also duration, which would be considered breadth versus height in charlies system.

  1. Number three is probably true in that you are not going to see the full results in the one HI stimulus until you have tapered off a little bit on the second HI stimulus and possibly some tapering off on the first stimulus as well.

  2. For five this is true. There are weak sprinters in the sense that they cannot produce large amounts of maximum maxitorium force(concentric 1rm) and there are powerlifters who obviously are great at the force side of the curve but cannot display a large amount of velocity(RFD).

  3. From personal experience and observation I would say this is probably true but I am not sure why.

Remember that this is only for the concentric F/V curve. An eccentric contraction is not the same in that you can produce larger forces even at the same velocity.

Hopefully some of these answers helped you out and some other members can help you out with the ones I didn’t cover.

Is it possible to phrase all this in more Leyman’s terms? I am getting a very vague understanding of the points, but I am struggling to apply them. Perhaps examples for each point would help. The weak sprinter and slow power lifter example was good, although that was for a fairly straight forward forward point.

Alright, first( I am not sure if you know this or not so I will explain it just in case) the F/V curve works like this.

On one side of the curve you have velocity(how fast a weight is moved) and on the other side you have force(the amount of wieght moved). Because of the way your muscles work during a concentric contraction, you can’t ever produce a higher velocity when pushing a heavier object versus a lighter one. The opposite is also true in that you cannot display a higher amount of force when pushing a lighter object. Using the definitions Zatsiorsky gave in Science and Practice of Strength Training, the V point of the curve would be how fast you can create with zero weight being applied(velocity), the F part of the curve would be how much tension you can create in an isometric contraction(maximum maximorium force) and the combination of the two, which would be everything in between(Maximum force, which is basically power). The definitions of force aren’t that important other than it helps to keep people from getting confused when the talk about which kind of force they mean, power or maximum strength.

But what you can do is shift the curve so that you train to be able to produce a higher velocity using the same weight(This is assuming that you maintained the same ability to display maximum maxitorium force) or train to increase the amount of force you can produce(This is assuming that you have maintained the same ability to display velocity). Both of these options will lead to an increase in power. If you work mostly at the velocity end of the curve, there will be more alteration in power near the velocity side of the curve but there will still be some crossover to an increase in power closer to the force side. The opposite is also true.

Again, the F/V curve is still in effect, but you have changed the slope of the curve. By realizing that you can work both sides of the concentric F/V curve, you have two options to increase power. In charlie’s case he uses speed work to cover the velocity side and weights to improve the force side of the curve. By trying to increase both the F and the V part of the curve, but emphasizing them differently throughout the year, he is able to increase power through both aspects versus one or the other.

IMO, the application of the concentric F/V curve is mostly during early acceleration where concentric power is important. After that is more limited in that it does not take into account the strong plyometric component of sprinting. Like I mentioned earlier there is an eccentric F/V curve, but it does not work the same way the concentric F/V curve works.

Also, there are probably cross over effects between the combination of lifting weights and sprinting that wouldn’t neccesarily apply to the concentric F/V curve. What I mean by that is that although the amount of concentric power you can produce doesn’t matter as much when you are at or near top speed(and top speed running would be much closer to the velocity side of the curve anyways), lifting weights might contribute to top speed through other neural and structural adaptions that are caused by lifting weights.

Hopefully this helps explain some of how the F/V curve works. I’m tired so hopefully I didn’t screw any of the explanations up too badly:D . If anyone has a graph of the F/V curve that they can post it might also help explain some of it.

That was really helpful. Thank you jstu! I will go through that a couple of times, then go through the initial questions and answers again.

http://www.sportsci.com/SPORTSCI/JANUARY/F-V%20CURVE.htm

This explains it a little better than I did and actually has the graphs.