Explosive pulls vs Olympic Lifts??

Hi there,
Ive started a new journal here :
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=11156
and i was wondering whether to include the OL’s or just an explosive pull from the hang position.

I’ve no access to a coach or proper bumper plates and ive been messing around with OL’s for ages without hitting correct technique so i feel they’re really a waste of time for me.

So i propose to replace them with explosive pulls from the hang position mid thigh. It is essentially the same as the explosion in a snatch minus the catch. Its easy to master, i can use cast iron plates for it and i hope will give me as much explosive power as a full snatch.

What do you all think? Id really appreciate some feedback on this.

Note : I also do Full ass to grass squats front and back, SLDL, RDL, lunges and bulgarian split squats. In essence the clean is just a combo of clean deadlift & back row & explosive second pull & front squat so i feel i have all the strength elements incorporated and now i have a simple method of adding an explosive component without worrying about the scoop or DKB or touching the bar off my thigh or all the things that gave me a head ache and a back ache in the past…

If you can’t clean correctly, what makes you think you can do the pulls correctly? Get yourself a coach.

I think it’s a good idea joconnor. If you can’t find yourself a coach, check hatchdome.com for good video examples of clean pulls & snatch pulls (I know, I know…but that site has some great example clips).

Clean pulls & snatch pulls allow you to use more weight than you could use in a clean or snatch w/ catch. This will allow you to increase your power output (but the lift will be slightly slower).

To some extent i agree with both the posts above.

  1. As a sprinter you proably only really need the pull anyway so they would be a good idea and are easier to master than the full double knee bend associated with the full lifts.
  2. The pull still requires a fair bit of technical knowledge so read up if you are going to do them.

Alternativly use explosive med ball to develop these qualities.

I have tried everything to get a coach believe me. Hatchdome has good videos but a video will never be able to give instant feedback and thats what i need more than anything. Coaches are in very short supply in ireland. possibly thats why we’ve never had much in terms of athletic success.

the exercise im proposing to do is not a full snatch pull from the ground. rather from the hang position mid thigh which i feel has much more carry over to a sports field.
Theres not really much to the technique of it:
Knees slightly bent, back arched, shoulders slighly ahead of bar then do a vertical jump and shrug the shoulders keeping arms straight. Lower to hang and repeat

Its basically a hang power clean minus the catch.
I always felt when i was power cleaning or any other OL i was much too concerned with completing the lift successfully so id cheat and use my arms way too much.

With this lift there is no reason to cheat so i can concentrate on the explosion.

I also incorporate med ball throws, not as often as id like though as the weather here is brutal for the next 5 months!!!

If you examine the force curve in the bottom left of this:technique of the snatch

The highest peak is the explosion as you all know. The initial peak is just the deadlift - which i do separately. the third peak is the recovery which i also do separately. also the explosive pull is done from hang with no initial velocity so the peak power output would be greater than the second pull in a snatch. that is if i actually pull high enough.
also i feel the lack of an initial velocity is crucial as often on the sports field you have to go from a cold standing start.

i will try this exercise for a few weeks and let you all know how i get on.
But more discussion would be appreciated…

I disagree abit…as a sprinter, going down the barbell, so accelerating and then decelerating, and then again reaccelerating, has a value for the sprinter, cleans and snatches, power and full, have their distinctive merits…however pulls can be used productively, but I feel them more…unnutural to perform

I was thinking of doing in GPP:

MB throws instead of clean pull
high pull instead of snatch

EROSZAG, I thought about the decel aspect of OL correlating with sprinting but why not just sprint for that? kinda like the phiposphy in plyos & replicating the speed of the SSC in sprinting? why try- just sprint cuz its the best plyo? if your not super proficient in OL why risk the injury & wasted energy?

I like Maren’s Pumas…

Jo,

Comparing the pull of an olympic lift to the power or full version is like comparing apples to oranges. The power outputs and peak force of the two ARE NOT the same. Pulls are used to strengthen and learn to hit proper positions of the olympic lifts. The intention to catch the bar changes the dynamics of the lift.

Olympic lifts also teach an athlete to learn to absorb force very rapidly which can also have a positive effect on eccentric strength by reveiving the load of the bar.

Nothing wrong with pulls, but I wouldn’t expect the same stimulus as doing power or full movements. What may be good for one athlete may not be good for another and if you don’t feel confident in doing olympic lifts, don’t do them as long as you are doing some strengh-speed work you’ll be fine.

totally agree with you, also cleans and snatches are more natural…as a movement, easier to find a groove…also pulls, still need lots of technical supervision

ok i hear you. i must be doing something right though. i measured my vertical jump tonight.
it was barely 20" in march this year. tonight it was a whopping 26" and a bit!!!
unbelievable. i delighted with that. im hoping to be able to dunk by next april.

i think i will do a combo of power cleans and hang jump snatches as described here:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137641

being realistic about it i’ll never be a good weightlifter so as long as i concentrate on exploding with the legs (and obviously not hurting myself) i think i will progress nicely.

im hoping in a year or two i will move cities in work and find a coach for the ol’s

no doubt, as long as you increase your strength and add some speed-strength exercise you’ll get better…however, going from 20 to 26 is a good feature, however, every inch you want to add from now on will be harder, so you need more programming and so on…however…good job!:slight_smile:

I don’t object to the use of pulls, but improvements in a programme can come from different means without necessarily you realising it; why not coming from deep back/front squats? Your jump improvement I mean. And if this is the case, couldn’t you perhaps spend some more productive time performing other elements (e.g., med ball drills as mentioned above, plyos, etc)? Why being stuck with those pulls? At the end of the day the latter are pre-exercises for proper full movement execution and the thought that they need less supervision is not entirely true and they can be almost as dangerous.
I am sure you can find other means as an equal stimulus…
Hope it helps to keep your options open!

Dude,
I am not sure this helps at all but here is some interesting research done on weightlifting for sports…http://cis.squirming.net/category/strength_and_conditioning/350/

If you feel that your O.L’s aren’t great its probably because you havent mastered the timing between the 2nd pull and the catch (for whatever reason) probably because you have been self taught…I had the same problem but recently had it cleaned up by an Olympic Lifting coach. Have you ever tried snatch extensions? They are the same as the snatch but without the catch (can be done from floor, hang, or blocks). They are much easier to do after a few tries and great for teaching full explosive extension of hips. After doing these for a few weeks you may find that they actually help your overall snatch (especially power snatch)