Blunt honesty: who cares about poor - average sprinters? As Martn just said the methodology comes from what works at the highest level most effectively, and is accomodated for younger athletes appropriately. I don’t understand why you’d want to see data on poor sprinters…everyone’s different…and they havn’t been trained yet. Who cares what their stride length, frequency, etc is until you’ve gotten down the basics USING methodology crafted by watching the elite?
Edit: My question to you…why do you want the data (if it even exists)?
I haven’t questioned expertise, that why I posted here. But I will question the application of any conclusion to my original question. Getting information about sprinters, even poor ones, likely won’t apply well to 13 yr soccer player with poor movement skills.
Now we are getting somewhere, I have never heard of Sports Discus or the British Library. You thought he was helpful? I thought he was condenscending. Ah, the shortcomings of online discussion. Who can tell either way?
The problem I am trying to solve is that some athletes are hard wired from birth with a two stroke engine. So forget about BMW. They are a different animal. I make no illusions of turning johnny into the next physical phenom. Really the question is HOW DO YOU GO FROM POOR TO AVERAGE? Is working from an unrealistic model the right way? Maybe it is and that is why I posted. Searching and questioning.
Searching for data will help to provide optimal training strategies. Taking poor to average is what I do everyday. I am just checking to ensure that a philosophy based on elites is best. Not just good, but best possible fit.
Actually I work with youth on a weekly basis (personal training and coaching), which is a big refresher to the lagging elders wishing to get stronger, faster, etc. Why? They respond to almost anything and a system developed for the elite tailored to the fact that they are young and inexperienced is the best way to go even with optimal conditions for other strategies. What kind of other options are you considering? You say that some are born as two strokes…that is nonsense. Everyone has the potential to be sub-elite if they train the right way starting at the right age, in any sport they want. Elite is a different story. Use the methods that have worked for years and you will not go wrong.
vhall what do you do with your athletes right now and what are their levels (both in their sports and in general physical performance)? how long have you had to work with them?
Asking if you trained youth was the wrong question. I took from “who cares about poor - average sprinters” that you didn’t care much for the majority of youth athletes which are poor to avergage sprinters.
What would you consider elite and sub-elite? I consider elite as international competitors and sub-elite as national competitors, or elite as professional and sub-elite as D1 college. If that is the case, I would have to disagree that everyone has the potential to be sub-elite. There is a genetic ceiling holding many youngsters back.
You should know that we probably use similiar methods for training youth. My only concern of using the “methods that have worked for years” is that those methods have not been used on the poor to average young athletes at the scale that they currently are across the world. So of course I will use the most logical and appropriate fit, but will continue to optimize and develop a systematic evidence based methodology.
while the actualy program, the reps, the poundages, the running distances ect might be quite different. you pull from the same training menu for a 12 year old running 13 or a 25 year old running 9.9.
It doesn’t apply in the way that you seem to be trying to find.
Elite sprinters do work on some finer points that average/poor/even sub-elite sprinters/athletes do not necessarily work on AS MUCH. But as dnasty said, you are still pulling from the same menu. You are still working as aspects of running technique, you are still working on aspects of strength, etc.
For example–If you have a younger athlete, you may be working on basic acceleration skills by doing hill sprints or starting sprints from a lying position since it will put them in the proper positions without making them think about it.
With an elite sprinter, you may be working on getting something very fine tuned, like how much the arm opens up during top speed (aka Tim Montgomery w/ Charlie). This is still an aspect of technique, but much finer than what the entry level athlete is dealing with.
And when it comes down to it, your are sprinting. Some people (this goes for all levels) are lifting weights, some people are doing plyos, some are doing hurdle mobility, etc. If you aren’t doing these basics anyway, you probably aren’t going to need to worry about the finer points, which make up a much smaller part of training.
Athletes between the ages of 6-20, various sports with many multi-sport, various skill and ability with the majority being average performers in overall performance indices. I typically have them 3-6 months at a time but some for 2-3 years. A little of everything.
My linear speed philosophy is based on improving technique through repetition and coordination of efficient movement patterns in order to apply the maximal amount of force in the least amount of time in the right direction. In addition focus is given on improving levels of hip mobility. Strength, power and plyometric work is designed to optimize function of the posterior chain as it relates to force production and stiffness in a sprinting pattern. I guess thats it in a nutshell.
So think, biomotor abilities known to impact speed performance as it relates to individual improvement instead of specific contributing factors of success for the elites?
There you go. Elites (and specifically, the methods their coaches apply) give you ideas of what to look for. Not talking prescriptions at this point, talking principals. With very low level athletes you may need to look at even simpler things, like body composition and general fitness levels.
For a very low level athelte the number one thing is fitness. If you’ve watched the Van’04 Download you will understand the idea of from Right to Left in the development of athletes.
With a very low level athelte you can work on general conditining via more specific means such as lots of med ball throws/accelerations, gym work and tempo running. Then short sprints and hill runs to work on form (see GPP download). Apart from jumping upwards I’d leave the plyos for lower level atheltes as stiffness can be improved significantly just through improved co-ordination.
I am amazed that the person who started this thread, has not been able to answer the questions asked themselves. The areas in which a young athlete can improve his or her athletic performance is almost always obvious. Lack of experience and overall knowledge may be the problem.
My question was never what are areas of improvement for youth speed development. It was a question of methodology and evidence supporting a given methodology. I am interested in approaches and systems not training components.
Sorry I dont agree. This is whole thread is a valid question. How to extrapolate downwards` from an elite training programme to normal mortals is not obvious at all.
I asked this exact question at a coaching seminar and the instructor did not know a precise answer. And one of his athletes won gold medals at commonwealth, european, world and olympic levels so I guess he knows his elite stuff !