Differences in Coaching Black and White Athletes

I know that many dispute the bench presses relevance to track but I will use it as an example as I believe the concepts I am describing apply to all physical endeavors that are being trained.

I believe that an average man of average size could easily bench press 400 pounds within his lifetime. 400 is a lot of weight and is very strong. But I believe great things are in many of us. I believe the average man of average size could probably squat close to 600 pounds in his lifetime with enough dedication. I believe most people could attain the level of flexibility to do the splits in their lifetime. I believe with the prerequisite strength, high levels of explosiveness and speed would be easily attainable through sprint training and plyometrics. I believe this seemingly “average” man with his levels of speed, explosiveness, strength, flexibility could attain excellent sprint form and be a great athlete in many sports he may wish to pursue including track. If this “average” man could really attain such things, what is stopping him from the next level

I am agree more with bobsanchez4321

I dont really know anything about track,but yeah,if you already have the natural abiity and devote urself fully to the sport,of course someone will be able to break his record,there are so many people out there and poeple breaking records is like everyday stuff,you would be surprised.Dont tell me that there is no one isnt able to acommplish what he has.Like i said if someone have the potential and natrual ability and train hard/watch ur diet and devote their life to the sport,of course they can be better than bolt

I mean yeah,I agree with some of yall saying there is a limit,but if u train diffrent way,there is always a little that you can improve

If you don’t think that there are million of people that have it in them to beat Bolt, answer me this question. This is obviously impossible because of obvious reasons, so keep in mind that this example is for statistical reasons only. Do you think if Glen Mills was given 6,000 males to train between 10 and 20, he could come up with one sub 9.58, sub 19.19 sprinter within 10 years? If he could come up with just 1 athlete faster than Bolt, then that would be the statistical representation that would be equivalent to 2 million people in the world.

I just realized a flaw which I will correct. I forgot to take gender into consideration so let us cut the numbers in half. Everything is now based off of roughly 3 billion men in the world. So that means Glen Mills is now training 3,000 males between the age of 10 and 20. I find it hard to believe that if Glen Mills could effectively coach 3,000 male athletes over a 10 year period that you truly believe he couldn’t come up with one athlete to beat Bolt’s records.

PS-If anybody wants to understand this thread they might wanna read this page from the top

Bob, your perception about the average man is pretty flawed, sorry.

Bolt didn’t become fast via hard work. Other people and I think some of his former coaches also used to criticize him for slacking in his training. He even said in some interview I watched that he only started seriously training for 2 years or something (after he met Glen Mills).

You said millions can beat Bolt. 400lb benches and 40 inch verticals, while great, are commonplace. Hundreds (maybe even thousands) at the high school level achieve those numbers each year. One person has ever run, wind legally,under 9.7, let alone under 9.6.

Since people can achieve anything with just hard work, go run sub 12.8 in the hurdles. That’s a much “weaker” record than Bolt’s 9.58, so it shouldn’t be too difficult for you with hard work. Get going.

bobsanchez, I think most people would agree with you that hard work goes a long way (and what Bolt considers “slacking” in his training is relative to whatever his training situation is and what his high-achieving peers do).

Most would probably also agree there are people whose talent is not realized because of poor training situations or ill-placed skepticism or artificial barriers.

But you have to remember that certain benchmarks have meaning BECAUSE they are so rare.

Most people on this planet not only cannot run sub10, they cannot run sub11, sub12, sub13, or sub14.
As you go do down in time, it takes a rarer set of talents to achieve the benchmarks.
If EVERYONE could run 9.58 with a lot of hard work, that time would not have as much value; it’s not worth as much because it’s no longer a remarkable achievement.

I was an 11.1-11.3 guy in HS; if I get down to 10.7-10.8 in the next 2-3 years, I will be very happy.
If Bolt (or Powell, Gay, Lemaitre, Guliyev, Burns, etc.) ran 10.7, it would be a huge cause for alarm.

They were alloted elite talent. I was alloted “better than most folks I meet” talent. How far I can get with that talent is a product of my hard work.

I am quite happy with that. If I somehow get to 10.00, it’d be surprising to me because that is a rare benchmark. I’m not saying I won’t - I’m saying that it’s a very rare achievement and the overwhelming majority (99.99999%) of sprinters in history have not reached it.

I wouldn’t say Bolt doesn’t work hard. He is a massive talent no doubt, the greatest talent ever most likely,( 19.8 as a junior) but he still had to train to get to 9.58 in the 100m. He still puts in the hours similar to any other world class runner, he does the speed work, lifts the weights, does the plyo etc.

Maybe he got serious only 2 years ago but that’s when he started getting consistent, and that’s when he stopped getting injured all the time. No surprise that his times have come down too.

2 years of proper training is nothing to laugh at. I wouldn’t say I’ve ever had a proper year of training in my life. I wouldn’t even say I’ve had six months. I think the natural talent argument is a scapegoat for lazy and/or bad coaches who don’t know what they are doing. They don’t want to admit that the way they train their athletes holds them back, so they blame it on a “lack of natural talent”. I believe “natural talent” or lack thereof is also an excuse for underachieving athletes to sell themselves short. I don’t know what I or anyone else is capable of, but I know that I can do more than most people think that I can.

and my view of the “average man” is skewed only in a sense that there is no way the “average man” could ever be dedicated enough to spend the hours upon hours at the track, and the hours in the gym required to achieve these things.

If natural talent was so important and elites possess such rare talent how could Charlie coach multiple world class athletes from scratch without recruiting?

Charlie even said that many of the athletes who came to him were incredible talents. See Mark McKoy and Desai Williams. Maybe you haven’t read Speed Trap. He didn’t just get Joe Blows. It goes without saying, there was 1 Ben Johnson. A lot of great guys trained with Charlie, but how many went under 10, let alone 9.8 (let alone 9.7, 9.6). That isn’t a knock on Charlie, but shows that talent is huge. You can have one of the best coaches alive, get massage 3x a day for a number of years, work your ass off for years, and do all of the other things needed for success and still never break 10 (let alone run 9.58 or 19.19) if you don’t have the talent.

Bolt ran sub 20 before he was training seriously and before he was with Mills. How many people (as in, the entire world population) are capable of sub 24 without extensive training? As a percentage… not a whole lot.

Oh and this ‘4 years ago’ stuff is beyond stupid. 4 years ago you had just started puberty. That tends to help people progress. A lot.

Most high school kids that train tend to explode during those very same 4 years.

I’d like to introduce you to diminishing returns and plateaus my friend, you’ll know what I’m talking about soon enough.

I’d like to add that, while the average man would be capable of doing a lot better on the track, or in the gym, than he’s actually doing now, if he’d put in the hours of training and sacrifice necessary to do so, the average man has a family to provide for, a mortgage to pay out, and a car loan to fullfill.

Of course continuous proper training will help a lot, but only to a point. Talent/potential, or whatever you want to call it, counts for a lot. You give CF a slow, weak, uncoordinated, determined, 18 year old fat kid (say 40lbs overweight) and 4 years of training, and how fast do you think he could run the 100m at the end of those years? I would be impressed with 12.0.

While I think training is training and should be for the most part individualized to begin with. I think race as in skin color is both overblown and underestimated.

It’s overblown for the simple reason that the actual skin color of a person doesn’t mean much genetically. If Tom Cruise is slower than Tupac it won’t be because he’s white.

It’s underestimated because socially it does make a difference. Especially in the U.S. It would be willing sticking your head in the sand to assume that on the whole a black athlete and indian athlete would come to the track with the same baggage. The personalities and social experiences brought due to their “race” will undoubtedly lead to some adjustments in coaching. At least until there is a level of comfort reached.