didnt charlie train this guy namend ben?? =)
where are hammers athletes?? o yeah well never know
And why would charlie want to do that? I mean, we’re not talking about Mel Siff vs. Paul Chek, or anything like that. How would this accomplish anything? Do you want them to race? Or should they train the exact same athlete for a year each and see who wins? Or are we talking like the show “Survivor”? Or a Strongman competition? Or should they both take the SAT and see who scores higher? What kind’ve nonsense is this! Is this like when Bruce Lee used to walk around Hong Kong and be challenged on the street so individuals could attempt to be the man!!
“He that is good with a hammer tends to think everything is a nail” Abraham Maslow
I tried to post this last night but had a glitch at the last minute.
The AMT idea might still be a good idea as a contrast or potentiating method for vertical jump improvement even without the bands. The AMT set-up has the height of the box equivalent to the height that gives one the best reactive jumping height. Then band tension is added which causes a 7-8% decrease in jump height. The jumps with bands and without bands are then alternated back and forth in 2-3 rep groupings with progress being noted as an increased reactive jump height without the bands.
Although the velocity upon impact wouldn’t be the same, one might be able to do this with regular depth jumps by simply finding the box height that allows the best reactive jump height, then adding to it until a 7-8% decrease is noted. Then start with the higher box and perform in 2-3 rep groupings alternating back and forth between the high and low box.
Regarding the AMT set-up some have told me they’ve tried using it holding the bands in the hands and this doesn’t work very effectively. Also I’m sure there’s a big difference in immediate results between someone playing around with this training in the garage vs someone who has been prepared for it weeks in advance at DB’s training compound.
As for potential results, well according to some research in Supertraining, even 8 to 10 minutes after regular depth jumps the vertical jump height was 8% above initial. 3 to 4 minutes after barbell squats it was 6% higher. Whether the depth jumps in this case were used as a training tool or a potentiating tool I don’t know but there is probably a lot of room for tinkering and getting even better potentiation.
Very interesting. Outstanding Post!!
Well you must know, that I can not speak for DB, so I better stop before my impulsivity makes me say STUUPIID things. So “Charlie Francis”, as you put it, may be the king for you and forget what I said. To make it more clear: Everything I know about Charlie Francis I know through the media and this board, so he may be great, the best or whatever. At the moment I’m mostly intrigued by DB’s work propably because it lacks all the fortune telling I see bothering other systems.
And everything I know about Britney Spears is from the media and websites. So there. I respect charlie and believe that any true professional does not have to prove themselves with petty arguments. And I “propably” like charlie francis because there’s no “bs” with him!
HE will accept that challenge? Are you here speaking on his behalf?
Now, I can achieve “credibility” only through HIM?
There is a forum for competition already out there- it’s called a track and the event is called the 100m.
Your friend has already enlightened us that the records in the 100m are below standard. While “Confidentiality agreements” prevent us from knowing what Hammer’s actually done, if anything, at a high level, you can look up my results. It should be a breeze for him to beat 9.79- and 31 other World Records.
I can see it now: Charlie Francis challenges DB “The Hammer” Spammer to gain credibility. This has turned into a big joke
Oh come on now! Of course it’s a joke!
Look, the idea is to present training concepts, both as possibilities and as historical fact, where it applies (ie, this is what I did and this was the [documented] result)
This is why this forum exists- and that it is open to ideas from all sources- provided they have a thick enough skin, at times!
My point is that from a physics standpoint, if the bands are slack or if they are released just as the athlete makes ground contact makes no difference. As a matter of fact, if you use this protocol, you could get the same effect with no bands just from jumping off a taller box because after the bands stop pulling, the acceleration immediately returns to 9.8m/s^2 and you only have to concern yourself with the velocity of the body falling to the ground. You can replicate this velocity by using a long free fall.
Now, if you left the bands on until the end of the ammortization phase and then released, you would have a different effect because then the body would have to react in an environment that includes a greater amount of acceleration.
I think the effect has more to do with the brain than actual velocity at the point of impact.
The brain does funny things as we all should know 
And it controls everything in the body and has many safeguards in place.
The idea is to push back the safeguarding thresholds.
Anyone who has squatted with moderate to heavy band tension which is set to kick in only at the top (not full range) can attest to this puts hand up 
Ever since I switched to full range band tension the effect isn’t quite the same, even though Westsiders will jump on your back and say you must have full range tension…
Very well. If is is a mental effect that we are going after with this technique, then I concur that the feel of being pulled down by the bands is, from a perception standpoint, very different than jumping off a higher height even if the physical effects at impact may be exactly the same.
Wait, so you’re saying you think having band tension from halfway up is better? Or only for certain circumstances? Which would be?
This is ridiculous. We have someone who makes extraordinary and incredible claims without any evidence despite the fact that if given what he says is true (i.e. that he has been involved in coaching for a significant amount of time) there should be an abundance of confirmatory data. So where does this leave his interesting ideas? How do they differ from any other wild claims made in a number of other fields? Or are we supposed to test out every thing that comes our way - from get rich quick schemes to hair loss cures we see on late night TV. The onus is not on us to disprove or discredit his theories but on him to prove or credit them.
I hope charlie knows that I am on his side and I think the joke is “The Hammer”!! I’m all for the free-exchange of ideas and training philosophies! I was just trying to make light of the “challenge”!
depends on the training goal
I like the idea of the bands slingshotting the weight down, but not loading the eccentric/concentric switch over and the sticking point.
Anyway I have found that even if you have the bands only active in the top half, the brain thinks the whole movement is heavier. Probably due to the extra kinetic energy from the bands
This maybe the same effect the AMT jumps are striving for
I am by no means an expert on this subject or an advanced athlete, but I have spent a lot of time reading on the subject and discussing-mostly with kellyb. Anyway as far as the AMT jumps are concerned, if anyone wants to give them a try I found a cheap and easy way to perform them. I got a metal folding chair and two nylon bungee cords. I put a weight belt around my waist, attached one end of the cords to the crossbar between the legs of the chair and the other end to the weight belt. Then perform the depth jump. I set it up so there was just enough slack in the cords when I hit the ground that they would unhook from the chair. Now I didn’t regulate the height or the tension as specifically as DB says to, but the setup worked. Did I increase my vert. jump 18% by my next session? No. But my weakness has always been my elastic abilities and I would have benefitted more from just normal depth jumps.
Now as far as my thoughts on DB. I believe he has many valid points in his writing. I have read many books by many coaches, Charlie included. While they are all good/great coaches and have trained many successful athletes, for me DB’s auto-regulating ‘system’ makes the most sense, it is the only one that has given me a standard on how many sets, how often, etc. I have the same complaints with him as most of you do, his writing style and terminology are difficult. That is the reason I had for not reading his a-reg articles on elite fitness at first. But after reading them, and re-reading them, and then reading them again, as well as getting a copy of his book, the system makes a whole lot more sense. Am I ready to crown him as the greatest? No, but I will give it a try and monitor my results myself. I have conversed many times with Kelly about this system, and he is having good results implementing some of DB’s ideas.
anyway, just my two cents…
Lance Tamburo
I have been in contact with Hammer for about 8 months now and he has been very informative and polite as well as expedient in his answers to my inquiries, via email. So, this being said, I will bring a couple of things out for thought. I sampled a 1 week that I got from him when I purchased his book and I gained about 9 to 13% neural duration improvement, in the lower body exercises, in about 2 weeks. Now, mind you, I have lifted for over 20 years so these were not rookie gains but at the same time, some of my best lifts are some years past. What this proved is that while my neuro magnitude is pretty good due to strength dominant training(or has been before) my neuro rate and especially neuro duration(training like a lifter, not an athlete) is poor. (Westside guys addressed the neuro rate problem with their compensatory acceleration day)What I did was train the weakest segment on my lifting. So, in order to not get long winded, I’ll say this: his system has a lot of different options to identify and improve what is lacking in your training and his “drop off margin” is a good place to start with to determine a termination point for any training session. Read the book, read it 2 or 3 times and give the system a shot. Either it works or it don’t. Bottom line.
I’m not talking on his behalf as I wrote earlier, so ignore my postings on that matter. I’m enthusiastic and get carried away, so just skip my ramblings and do what you do best. I respect you and your expertise.
It is alright to be cynical, but to judge every book by it’s cover is not necessarily the best approach. I think it is worthwile to spend time and learn about what he is talking about and then do the judging. Many only seem to be interested on specific exercises he does at some phase of the development of an athlete and do not see the big picture he presents.
I have noticed that he does seem to have a reason for everything he does with an athlete at a certain point in time and he can clarify the reasons.
Now is there really something in his system that someone here disagrees on? That would make this discussion worthy of reading and maybe we could discuss the reasons behind the differing opinions.
I don’t think anyone disagrees with his system…
But his public relations is a bit horrible!
From what I hear, DB Hammer always remarks “A study has proven…” without adding in proper references. I HATE that type of writing/talking. Normatitive statements have no place in professional publications.