i dont buy the RDA for athletes. thats telling me to eat 58.4 grams of protein a day, or under 6% of my daily caloric intake. not to mention how much more microtrauma an athlete goes through compared to a sedentary person. i think 1g per pound is too much for most people, but .8g per kg of bodyweight is ridiculous for an athlete.
i think 1g per pound is too much
too much for what? Worst case senario you have elevated blood urea nitrogen which is non toxic either way.
if you know of any studies linking excess protein consumption with health issues feel free to post cause i know none
The most I’ve seen recommended in any reputable study or textbook is 1.6-1.7 g/kg for strength/power athletes.
Of course there’s always the bodybuilding sites and supplement makers that will say 2g/lb…
RDA seems fine for me doing weightlifting 3x per week.
If I was training like a full time athlete I would shoot for 15% as the sports nutritionists recommend.
I would like to know where the 1.6/kg or whatever figures come from, how do they know that’s the right amount? Who did they sample? When?
i dont mean itll harm you, i just dont think itll do you any good. plus you have to go out of your way to get that much protein.
And you don’t “have to go out of your way” to
get carbs and fat???What, do they just fall from the heavans???
Any “quality food” involves “going out of your way”. Going to the track involves going out of your way. Going to the weight room involves going out of your way. Better get use to “going out of your way”.
TNT
why would i go out of my way to get something i dont believe will help me?
Ah I just made the #s up. Seems right to me…
Lemon et al. 1992
Tarnopolsky et al. 1992
Walberk et al. 1988
these were studies on strength athletes (mostly male bodybuilders). nitrogen balance studies…
Lemon noted that at .99g/kg all subjects but one had a negative nitrogen balance. At 2.62g/kg all had a positive nitrogen balance. Regression analysis indicated balance occurred at 1.43g/kg. Their recommended allowance for strength athletes was 1.6 to 1.7 (requirement+2SD)
A meta-analysis on many studies on strength training athletes "People who regularly engage in strength exercise need dietary protein intake of 1.6-1.7 g/kg bodyweight or 2.0 to 2.1 times the current adult RDA).
-Sport Nutrition for Health & Performance by Melinda Manore & Janice Thompson
…do you want more? I could provide more info about the 1.6g/kg thing. Of course I’m sure I could find studies saying you only need the RDA. I could find anecdotal bodybuilder evidence that you need 4g/kg… isn’t research fun.
Also checkButterfield,G., Cady,C., and Moynihan, S. 1992. Effect of increasing protein intake on nitrogen balance in recreational weight lifters. Med Sci. Sport Exer. 24:S71 abstract
Tarnopolsky, MA, MacDougall, JDand Atkinson, SA 1988 Influence of protein intake and training status on nitrogen balance and lean body mass. J. Appl. Phys. 64(1):187-193.
These two point to around 1.6g/kg
One more note:
Paul GL. Dietary protein requirements of physically active individuals. Sports Med 1989; 8:154-176.
Athletes and Physically Active Individuals
It has been shown that the protein requirements for athletes may well exceed that suggested by the (USRDA) .80 g/kg/day. If an individuals protein requirement increases in response to exercise, then changes in protein metabolism will become apparent. When the body is in a homeostatic state, protein synthesis is equal to protein degradation and the protein requirement of the body for tissue maintenance is satisfied. The most common way to detect changes in protein metabolism is to assess nitrogen balance of the body.
Positive nitrogen balance occurs when the total nitrogen excreted in the urine, feces and sweat is less than the total nitrogen ingested. Positive nitrogen balance must exist for new tissue to be synthesized. When dietary protein intake or total energy intake is inadequate to maintain tissues total nitrogen balance, negative nitrogen balance occurs and new tissue is unable to be synthesized. When the body is in nitrogen balance, protein and energy intake is sufficient to maintain tissue protein needs and the amounts of nitrogen entering and exiting the body are equal.
The results of nitrogen balance studies on endurance athletes indicates that these athletes have protein requirements that exceed the USRDA of 0.8 g/kg/day. A study found that endurance athletes (defined as training for at least 12 hours per week for at least 5 years) require 1.37 g/kg/day of protein to maintain nitrogen balance compared to 0.73 g/kg/day for sedentary individuals.
It appears that weight training can also lead to a daily protein requirement that exceeds the current USRDA. It has been found that 2.0 to 2.2 g/kg/day of protein was barely sufficient to maintain nitrogen balance during moderate intensity weight training. Furthermore, weightlifter’s protein requirements increased proportionally to training intensity. Research has shown that 2.0 to 2.6 g/kg/day of protein are required for periods of very intense weight training, whereas protein intakes of 2.0 g/kg/day maintained a positive nitrogen balance during periods of less intense weight training.
It is clear that athletes need to consume more protein than the current USRDA for 0.8 g/kg/day in order to maintain nitrogen balance. Conversely, since the requirements of carbohydrates, and overall calories also increase with physical activity, the recommended proportion of calories from protein does not change significantly. With a calorie sufficient diet, protein requirement values needed to maintain positive nitrogen balance of both weight trained and endurance trained athletes constitutes intakes of 12% to 20% of total daily calories.
and another:
https://enzy.com/abstracts/display.asp?id=4083
In the text of Vorobyev, the recommended daily intake for weightlifters up to 80 kg is 2.4-2.5 g per kg of bodyweight
I think it is important to remember that if total calories are not adequate, ie. if calories consumed doesn’t meet and/or exceed calories expended (depending on the goals) the protein issue is only a peice of the puzzle.
Also 1.6g/Kg is a far cry from the outrageous values of 2g per pound that some supplement companies spew in their adds and articles.
I can’t recall but is 1.6g/Kg based on LBM or BW.
I believe, in the studies I’ve seen, 1.6g per kg is simply based on bodyweight not LBM.
From personal experience, I tend to agree with Jimbo. While I do believe athletes have greater protein needs than sedantary people (and greater nutritional needs in general) I still think fat is more important. Throughout the 90’s the late Dan Duchaine placed increasing emphasis on the importance of fats. I think the whole low fat BS that has plagued the nutrition industry for the past 25 years has prevented important research on the role fat plays in muscle growth and recovery. It would be interesting to see the effects of replacing the higher protein intake in some of the studies with fat calories.
I disagree with the high protein requirements proposed for athletes. I blame the supplement industry for putting people in a frenzy about high protein requirements. Obviously they want to sell protein powder so they come up with all these BS studies to prove their point. I used to consume alot of protein (40+ grams at every meal). Now I’ve dropped it way down. Sometimes I don’t even eat meat at a meal. I’ve noticed no changes in body composition or energy levels. Also, you can tell when you need protein because your body will crave it. You’ll have an uncontrollable urge to eat a steak or something.
I disagree with the high CARB requirements proposed for athletes. I blame the food industry for putting people in a frenzy about high CARB requirements. Obviously they want to sell more CARBS (pasta, bread, cereal, and grain products) so they come up with all these BS studeis to prove their point. I use to consume alot of CARBS (40+ grams at every meal). Now I’ve dropped it way down. Sometimes I don’t even eat CARBS at a meal. I’ve noticed no change in body composition or energy levels. Also, you can tell when you need CARBS because your body will crave it. You’ll have an uncontrolable urge to eat a bagel or something.
Makes sense to me.
TNT
Pretty weak argument,
You’d notice a drop in energy levels for sure. And there’s no need to promote “Carb Supplements” because they’re so easily accessible, whereas athletes think of protein as some mystical substance that helps build muscle.
Ever hear of Gatorade, Powerade, Red Bull, etc. etc.???No need to promote a “Carb Supplement”??? Where you been living?
10% of the average North American’s calories come from pop and sports drinks. Do you have any idea how much money is spend promoting those carb supplements? And aren’t they promoted on the basis of as some “mystical substance”?I would love to have the interest on that amount. Prime rate would be fine.
TNT
If you go to any supplement website on the internet you will hear the same old line… “you need 10 grams of protein for each pound of body weight” or something like that.
Why don’t they have a ratio like this about carbs? because nobody puts carbs up on a pedestal as a muscle building macro nutrient.
The RDA recommendations are the minimum needed for a person to survive. An athletes protein metabolism is actually a bit more effective so one NEEDS less protein. That’s a bit different than optimizing ones performance… E.g. protein turnover rates go up when consuming more protein (read essential amino acids) so your (muscle) tissue renews and recovers faster.
Btw, Nikoluski was right about one thing, protein meals do increase calsium excretion, that’s why you eat veggies and fruit with it (not cereals which do the same as protein for calsium) to balance your acid/base-balance.
And the load on kidneys that was mentioned, there’s absolutely no harm when you don’t eat protein alone. When eating almost all your calories in protein you’ll have a problem (called rabbit starvation).
It all depends upon what you are trying to do and what state of recovery your body is in. For those athletes are who are looking to bulk up then they need to increase protein as much as 2 grams per 1lb of body weight. Also for athletes that are training hard and slightly overtraining they are going to need a little higher protein count as well.
lean bodymass in pounds= grams of protein. works well for me. as blinky said, i used to eat about double this for protein, but then reduced it to about 200 per day instead of 400. my strength stayed the same if not increased, and my bodyfat dropped. hell i also saved a lot of money because i was eating less food. however 200 is still considered a lot and looking back 400 was rediculous, but my lean bodymass is about 200. 40%carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat.