Cows milk,

good or bad?



This is an interesting study in the way science works. In the US, the dairy industry has been a big contributor to the Republicans and it has been rewarded with subsidies, making milk very attractive to consumers. Pissed off Democrats have always had a grudge against the industry and whenever they’re in power, you’ll see a flood of studies comming out about the problems with milk. You’ve prob heard much of it- cows milk leads to diabetes, Yoghurt causes catarracts, poisoning with bovine gh, etc. Hard to know what to believe and I’m sure no Republican but I can’t conceive of it being better for consumers to avoid milk and choose Coke instead!

Awsome answer. a friend of mine is studying naturapthy, and they do studys and tests on individuals. What they have found is, raw cows milk is best, pasturised cows milk is still good, just cleaner, but when cows milk becomes homogonised, it then it f$#ks with arteries and deposits free calcium in the blood which wrecks joints and blood pressure down the track.

But, what about fat free milk? smarter white milk, A2 milk, goats milk ect ect. I will try to find out, but in the mean time, any other thoughts?

Probably good in moderation (unless you have an allergy of course). Lately there has been a suggestion of a link between milk and cancer because of IGF-1. Maybe this is linked to the political farce. I try not to follow politics more than I have to so I wouldn’t know.

Edit: I just came across this statement from a nutritionist while reading an article, which is similar to what I first thought when I saw the thread. ‘No one food is good or bad, or adequate or inadequate, by itself’.

Beta casein A1 and A2 in milk and
human health: Lay Summary
About 25-30% of the protein in cows’ milk is β-casein and it comes in several
forms depending on the genetic make up of the cows. One of the forms is
called A1 β-casein and it has been suggested that it might cause or aggravate
one type 1 diabetes (which is the type seen most commonly in children), heart
disease, schizophrenia, and autism. The other main form of β-casein is called
A2 and it has not been not been implicated in these diseases. The evidence
to support the hypothesis that the A1/A2 composition of milk is a causative or
protective factor in these diseases is reviewed in the report.
The strongest evidence is for type 1 diabetes and heart disease. The main
study supporting a relationship with the type of milk consumed was a
comparison of 20 countries. Those countries with the highest consumption of
A1 β-casein had the highest rates of type 1 diabetes and heart disease. The
relationship was very strong indeed, but these types of comparisons between
countries can be difficult to interpret. There are many other factors that
contribute to these diseases and the information is only averaged for the
whole country’s population. There have been a few other human and animal
studies which provide some limited support for the hypothesis. Further
research, especially involving human trials, is needed before it can be said
with confidence that the A1/A2 composition of milk is important in human
The evidence in relation to an effect of A1 β-casein on schizophrenia or
autism is much less. Some individuals with autism seem to improve on
special diets that are free of both casein and gluten.
The A1/A2hypothesis is both intriguing and potentially very important for
population health if it is proved correct. It should be taken seriously and
further research is needed. In addition, the appropriate government agencies
have a responsibility to communicate the current state of evidence to the
public, including the uncertainty about the evidence. Further public health
actions, such as changing dietary advice or requiring labelling of milk
products, are not considered to be warranted at this stage. Monitoring is also
required to ensure that any claims made for A2 milk fall within the regulations
for food claims.
Changing the dairy herds to more A2 producing cows is an option for the dairy
and associated industries and these decisions will undoubtedly be made on a
commercial basis. Changing dairy herds to more A2 producing cows may
significantly improve public health, if the A1/A2 hypothesis is proved correct,
and it is highly unlikely to do harm.
As a matter of individual choice, people may wish to reduce or remove A1 β-
casein from their diet (or their children’s diet) as a precautionary measure.
This may be particularly relevant for those individuals who have or are at risk
of the diseases mentioned (type 1 diabetes, coronary heart disease, autism
and schizophrenia). However, they should do so knowing that there is
substantial uncertainty about the benefits of such an approach.

Few points:
The countries with the highest milk consumption (read subsidized USA) have the highest Diabetes/heart disease rates rates. But, the USA has the highest obesity rates by a long shot. From casual observation (hanging around the parking lot at Costco), the fattest people comming out have the least milk products, the most processed food, and the most juice and pop.
Re raw milk: It is a health risk because you can never get it fresh enough, but it has all its Carnitine intact (heat from pasturization destroys it), hence less risk of CV disease. Supplemental carnitine is always a good idea.
Is the rest of the “evidence” in the cows milk study as valid as the arguement about the diabetes/CV link? Who funded the study?

I would believe, that studys done yrs ago on milk would be like you say, based on gov. research. But not say in the last 10yrs. Its now the information age, no longer the industrial age. No longer are studys based soley on marketing ploys. Though they still happen, there are plenty of studys done now days from indipentand groups. i used to suffer a lot of stuffy heads, runny nose and mucus – i also drank a lot of cows milk, a lot. After much research on how to be a better athlete, i came across Milk and its side effects. I tried soy milk, not very nice but solved the milk side effects story. Then i went onto goats milk, still no side effects and it tasts nice yet is expensive! I am now on A2 milk, very slight side effects. But, that may be due to around the same time i have been haveing more cofffies from Gloria Jeans coffie shop! I didnt think about it till last night, but, when i have one of there capachinos, i get a gassey, bloated and later stuffy head… ANd what do they use? 100% full cream cows milk. I just never really thought about, untill you start to ask yourself the right questions i guess??
One more thing, osteoporosis is highest in countries that have also the highest processed dairy consumption too!

If YOU find that cows milk is a problem (lactose intolerant etc) then don’t use it. It’s a stretch to extend personal findings to a rule for all. Everyone should experiment withtheir diet to see what works best for them. Also milk and milk products like yoghurt may have different results for the same person.
Also note, countries with the highest dairy consumption (processed) also are the countries that do the least exercise overall- so which is the cause of osteoporosis?

I would say the later…
I have never thought that cows milk causes strong bones. I think it was a study i read once that showed normal cows milk actually leached calcuim out of the body? ANd i have seen young people, grown up on a farm, milking cows ect, going on about how strong there bones would be (based on gov. backed research?) yet they fall of a chair and break a bone!! Why did the milk not protect there bones? even from a lack of exercise point, according to the dairy industry there bones should be as strong as steel, yet they still broke like a twig!!
Hence, i believe cows milk does not make bones stronger. I believe exercise makes bones stronger.
Lactose, i forgot about that, what is it again? Why does normal milk have it and other milk not? Is it part of the fat content or something? I have totally forgot?

Same old story…
when i was 5 to 6 y/o, the 29" TV weighting about 100lb ( those antique wood model with a 2cm glass ) fall upon my legs, i was seated with my legs stretched and then without any reason the TV just bruummmmmmmmm…
i started to cry ( also my mother ),
my legs was totaly paralised with those “tons” over my knees…
More amazing about this, was the fact that, nothing happened with my leg, nothing !!
Yes, i drink milk 4 times a day every day (7 liters per week ),
and yes, my childhood was a little wild.

I heard an interesting story from a women when I worked in a health food store. She was hit by a car going 80 kph. Not one bone was broken through but did have a slight fracture somewhere. The radiologist and colleagues were all asking her how much milk she drank because of her strong bones. To their shock she told them she was a vegan and had been for several years. So who knows. I don’t drink milk anymore because I get a weird rash on my face and my ass reeks. Just ask my wife. I used to drink a ton. I’m 6’3" and my parents are 5’5" & 5’6". I heard the milk I used to drink was totally “enhanced” from my sister who read a study. I don’t drink it now and feel great and don’t smell anywhere near as bad, I think.

There is a site called but through further digging, it seems that everything that shows something good or bad about something is backed by the opposite thing trying to cash in on supposed “research”. IE the Soy Milk producers.

I just wish there were studies done for the good of the consumer not some group that can profit from it’s findings.

Also the Governator Ahhhnooold said in Pumping Iron that “milk is for babies.” So I try to listen to everything Arnie did back in the day. :cool:

“Milk is for babies, when you grow up, you need to drink beer!”
So, you drink beer? :smiley:

so, was it your wild childhood or the milk? So many variables…
I remember drinking at least 1ltr of milk per day with my 12 weatbix! lots of swimming created big appitate when your a kid. I too was very active, drank my milk, and never a broken bone. Therefore it must have been the Milk!! Crazy study. I wonder if thats how they do there reasearch?
I think, if we can get our hands on a medical journal, we should get our facts from that. You would be amazed at what you see in them. for just one thing, there is a link between red meat and cancer that you may never have of heard off?? But its in the medical journals! Why dont we hear of it? $$$$$???

My wife is a doctor, her sister is a doctor, her ex-husband and my friend is doctor, so, there´s a lot of scientific magazines, medical journals and a lot related phisycal studies all over my homme, even on the bathroom to “fast reads”.
But i´m not that kind of guy who believes only in scientific facts, course facts are facts but… There´s a lot we don´t understand yet, and i believe that mind power over body is so big that we don´t have facts to prove yet.
And yes, i still drinking 1 liter of milk per day, 1/2 of them non fat and 1/2 fat, i love it.

It’s not the amount of calsium you intake that protects you from osteoporosis, but the balance between intake AND excretion (this could be called the “calsium balance”). Calsium loss again is determined by the acid-base balance (hint: cheese and milk are acidic, whereas veggies are alkaline). This explains why the vegetarian has a better bone density than the man who consumes a gallon of milk a day even though the vegetarian’s intake may be lower. Of course exercise plays a big role too.

Right on! A diet high in fruits and veggies gives your body a net alkaline load. Meats and dairy are acidic (as are soft drinks and oddly enough, most fruit juices). Calcium is absorbed more efficiently in an alkaline environment as well. Therefore, when trying to get calcium from your milk, you’re creating an acidic environment that doesn’t absorb calcium very well. That, along with a net acid load diet, can cause leaching from the bones to balance the pH. Basically, you take in more, absorb less, and put your body in a state nonconducive to absorbing calcium.

Therefore, aim to get your calcium from leafy green vegetables. If you choose, reduce/eliminate milk consumption you probably won’t be any worse off for it. Then again, as Charlie says, measure the effects on yourself. The most important experiment involves a sample size of 1…you.

But you may not be able to tell for years, and by then it’s too late. Many people have claimed to feel just fine from smoking cigarettes and drinking a lot of alcohol, then years later, cancer or liver problems. Of course one might say that they weren’t really okay, that they must have felt the ill effects, but maybe we could feel ill effects from the foods we eat but don’t notice because we’re used to them.

Data is good to have, the problem as pointed out is getting good information since almost everyone has an agenda. I do subscribe to Medscape, maybe I’ll see what they have to say about milk. I drink a lot but I’m willing to switch to something else if there’s good reason. So far everything I’ve read has been refuted by someone(dairy/gov’t funded?) and I like milk and it’s pretty cheap so I haven’t wanted to look that hard. I did stop completely for 6 months once but went back since my body seems to like it. But what good does that do if it’s doing harm I can’t feel yet?

I completely agree with this. It goes along with “My grandpa smoked, drank, and ate fried food all the time and lived to be 97”, “I’m already a stud athlete on this diet”, and “I feel perfectly fine. My diet must be good.” My answer to the first two is always “You’re that good (or he did that) in spite of diet, not because of it.” The second reply is “How do you know you feel good? Maybe you’ve just never felt really good before, so you have no idea how bad you really do feel.”

I used to be a high carb, low fat guy in high school, when I wasn’t eating whatever crap I wanted to and was pretty decent in sports. Over the past couple years, I’ve realized that I didn’t feel fine…I just didn’t know how feeling fine felt. I imagine that it’s the same with many people that take their current state as is and don’t try to improve it. In the past couple months, I’ve eliminated dairy and feel just as good without it. Performance has actually increased, but that isn’t necessarily attributed to the exclusion of dairy.

I know this…humans don’t NEED dairy, but most think they do because it’s on the FGP and it’s everywhere. Humans are the only species that doesn’t lose the ability to produce the lactase enzyme following the weaning period, except those of us that have “unmutated” genes from our Hunter-Gatherer roots (ie lactose intolerant people, which is what all people were millions of years ago). Humans are also the only species that actively seeks the milk of another species. I can guarantee that 2 million years ago, none of our ancestors were getting close enough to wild animals to milk them. Food for thought… (and discussion)

Milk and Meat create an acidic condition. So, while abandonning milk, we should drop meat too? Are there any world record holders who are card-carrying PETA members?
Seriously, what buffering methods do you suggest? What ratio of fruits and veggies?