CNS reserve (qs from CFTS)

Expert Discussion Advanced Sprint Training
1

Charlie and others:

In CFTS you mention how after your injury was over you couldnt do the quality lifts like before cause the sprint session had already almost drained your CNS prior to lifting. Im having the same problem myself, i can almost never go up to 80% of my max in lifting after a quality sprints session.

You also mention how ben johson had entered the weights room and could perform due to the fact he had just come out of a tempo session, so had plenty of CNS reserve as compared to angella who had came of of a sprints session and was exhausted. does this mean one is doing a high volume of sprnts so is not leaving enough for the lifts or can one do the sprints today and tempo combined with lifts the next day? but then your not giving your CNS 48hrs for recovery, so wat should happen?

the problem is that im thining of cutting down the sprints session to only two per week since im almost never recovered from the previous one, and do four low intensity workouts, and maybe cutting down my lifting to also two sessions per week after the sprints and replace with calisthenics on the other four days. i should start competing in two weeks and i dont want to be overtrained or overstressed. Please guys i need feedback, Charlie, wat would you have me do?? Thanks

2

Come on guys i need feedback here!! when one feels they are wasted after sprinting and cant lift properly in the weight room does it mean that volume of sprinting should be dropped? if so im already doing arounds acceleration and maxv in one session worth arounds 50m, a typical session of thse would look like the following:

3xflying 30m
4x10m with blocks (practise reaction and proper technique)
4x60m with blocks (30m acc + 30m maintain)
2x80m standing

then i plan on doing another session in 4days and should look like this:

3x50m with blocks
2x150m standing

will do my lifting after the following sessions only, these sessions would be performed say on sat and wed, with mondays session a much less stressful workout which i will perform in normal flats and will target my general endurance nd lacic tolerance, a session of those would look like this

1x300m (10min) at arounds 39
3x200m (8min) at 26, 25, 24
1x300m (10min) at arounds 39

and will follow that with light plyometric workouts (no intense heavy weights). and obviously with the three tempo workouts in between sessions.

Is that any smart training so as to reduce overall CNS stress??

3

Komy, maybe post your weight lifting routine as well? You want a way to reduce your running to help you lift more, but shouldn’t you be looking for a way to improve the running? That might mean cutting back the weights a bit. What is the real problem, is your speed at a plateau, or do you just want to lift more? Not sure where you are in your season, but the competition phase may not be the best time to try for big weight lifting increases.

Good luck man.

4

Komy! Why are you not prepared to look through the archives? This has been covered in great detail. If you want to get right to it, it’s in the Forum Review.

5

Yes, the forum review has graphs that will help you out with this tremendously, not to mention all the Q and A with regards to such questions. After buying most of CF’s products, I have to conclude that this will give you the most bang for your buck.

BTW, if you do get a chance, get all of CF’s products. I say this because I have most of them and I’ve been able to structure a triple peridization plan with all of what CF recommends. It takes quite a bit of work and reading but its well worth it.

6

well i just bought speed trap and CFTS just last week and finished with those, but guess i need to buy the forum review as well to help me out. well thnx anyways

7

its not to lift more, its that the quality of the lifts is not as high as i expect, like ex cant go past 80% in lifts like bench presses and deads, and sometimes i just feel like i dont have the energy to lift after a sprints session when id have done tempo work just the day before.

8

Do what I do! Sprints between 1-3 p.m. and weights at 7-9 p.m.

This leads to less CNS recovery but so what? From what I can tell you CNS is trashed anyways. I found this to be the best for me and I can usually put in close to 90-95% of my 1RM.

This gives you 4-5 hour break as CF suggest and this time period FOR ME works when my CNS is stimulated the most during the day! I get up at 11a.m. If you get up at 9p.m. then subtract two hours from the time that I have posted! For tapering before competitions this material is in the forum review and suggest which exercises should be switched and eliminated as competition approaches! The Review is dirt cheap!

9

komy - a few comments for you…

You said you are exhausted at the end of the sprint workouts. Are you measuring the performance in some way to make sure you aren’t falling way off towards the end of the workout? If so, you may want to reduce the volume.

Have you tried waiting a few hours between the sprints and lifts, as supervenom mentioned? I have to do this, I think not because of CNS fatigue but rather short term muscular fatigue.

The sprint workouts you mentioned appear to be top speed oriented. Are you developing your max strength before this phase of the year while you are working on an acceleration phase? Perhaps this would make the lifting psychologically more bearable during the current period knowing that you only want to maintain strength with a minimum number of sets and reps during this top speed phase.

Not sure you want to do any plyometrics after your runs, especially after the special endurance portion you mentioned which will create a lot of muscular fatigue. Kitkat just had a good post about why someone wouldn’t do plyos with poor body position…check it out.

10

for three whole weeks i have trained very hard with double sessions etc mainly cause got distracted through exams and wanted to catch up on my training. on the third week micocycle this was my last sprint session of the week (from my journal):

Morning: Lifting (Upper Body)

Bench press: 3x5 @60kg, 3x4 @80kg, 3x3@100kg, 3x2 @110kg

Lat Pull Down (front): 3x8reps p to 60kg

Seated Rows: 3x8reps up to 60kg

Evening: Sprints

2.5k run

medball: 3x6reps. 5kg ball

  1. Underhand forward throw
  2. Overhead forward throw
  3. Vertical throw

form drills: x2x30m (fast)
4x10m practise runs
3x50m build ups

2x30m 3.91, 3.80 sb
4x40m 4.89, 4.85 sb , 4.94, 4.87
4x50m 5.96, 5.97, 5.91 sb , no time
4x60m 7.51, 7.22, 7. 15, 7.10 (Including reaction time!)

Circuit training: 6sets. 5min between 3sets
1st 3 sets @20sec. 2nd 3 sets @10sec

  1. Press ups
  2. Crunches
  3. burpees
  4. Hypers

Bounding: 4 hurdles. x4reps

  1. Double leg vertical jump

  2. Double leg horizontal jump

  3. double leg vertical jump (gradual height increase)

the following day i did 2x3x300m tempo runs arounds 50sec with 3min rep and 5min set. I came on Saturday with a sore hamstring (very surprisingly) and been taking it easy for the past two weeks (weeks four and five) no major sprints wat so ever. and now i feel like im bounced back and ready for work, i think wat i can do Supervenomsuperman is split the sessions during the day but im still studying at uni so i think i can do the lifting in the morning b4 i start lectures and then sprint in the afternoon (cant do the opposite) and i actually think i can make it happen.

basically joel i have done three weeks of pure acceleration and starting power development, had to take it easy for 2weeks to recover hamstring and now ready to work on top speed and speed endurance like my previous posts.
cheers!

11

Your 30 times suggest that your 60m is off. You are hitting the 30m in 3.8-9 yet your 60m time is 7.10. I would suggest you increase times between runs of special endurance x2. Practice fly 20s.

With a 3.8, you should cover second 30 in atleast 2.9-3.0 secs. Top speed is your lagging performance feature. Hope this helps.

12

I think one oversight that I made was that we are comparing our programs to that of CF’s. As such it took time for CF’s athletes to build the volume on the track and in the weight room. That being said as the years go buy you will probably find that doing wts after speed sessions will be much easier to tolerate and preferred due to time constraints. Also, CF would give his athletes certain concocktions of drink mixes with leucine or something like that after 1 hour and 30 min in the wt room so that they could continue and finish strong. Not to mention argine and tyrosine before wt lifting. Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong.

13

if u chck through my journal u would see that the week before this session i was able to run the 60m in a new personal best of 6.58seconds with a 3point start. my times were really off in the 60 during this practise is because the reaction time was included, so one person would set us off with a gun and the coach is at the 60m line timing. should start running 80m as of this week so will see exactly where im at with top speed and speed end.

14

about the volume, YES u are absolutely right. i see in CFTS 3000m/week before taper so thats like 1000m of sprint volume per session, if i do that id be out for the rest of the week! and his athletes definitely took time before adapting to this volume. dont really know about the drinks but with this level of training, i bet one would need everything!

15

Sorry no offence ment.

16

no offence taken man :slight_smile:

’ I would suggest you increase times between runs of special endurance x2 ’

im not really sure what u mean, can you please expand more on that?

17

komy, perhaps you can try having a “focus lift” for the session? ie Hit it hard on bench press on monday, go for more of a general muscular fatigue for the back(ie higher reps with bodyweight, DB rows, BB rows, lat pulldowns, etc, choose one), and same with lower(maybe a unilateral exercise at higher reps, DB swings, good mornings, RDL’s, etc, you get the idea). Then next session your lower body could be the lift you go heavy on(focus on), do you get what Im saying? This way you are working your whole body each session, but your not lifting super heavy, so it shouldnt trash you while still giving sufficient stimuli to increase strength.

18

Longer rests between the runs doulbe the recovery?